RE: [CR]chrome condor

(Example: Production Builders)

From: "David Toppin" <dave@pelletizer.com>
To: "'Jerome & Elizabeth Moos'" <jerrymoos@sbcglobal.net>
References: <A2DBA71618CD4560BF68209FAD7FE5DB@G4P0N5SS> <818903.4585.qm@web82204.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
In-Reply-To: <818903.4585.qm@web82204.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Subject: RE: [CR]chrome condor
Date: Sun, 27 May 2007 18:50:59 -0400
Organization: The Pelletizer Group, Inc.
Thread-Index: AcegiofxKTfOvZzyT+eQ22G6QvDtjAAJsVkw
cc: 'Classic Rendevous' <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>

Well, they told him they'd take his check and ship the bike to him. Your word is your worth, they shouldn't have sold it out from under him after telling him to send a check. That was wrong.

David Toppin dave@pelletizer.com http://www.pelletizer.com <------ see our complete, searchable inventory.

The Pelletizer Group, Inc. 4 LaChance Street Gardner, MA 01440-2476

(978) 669-0060 (978) 669-0061 fax

-----Original Message----- From: Jerome & Elizabeth Moos [mailto:jerrymoos@sbcglobal.net] Sent: Sunday, May 27, 2007 2:12 PM To: dave@pelletizer.com; tonythreerings@aol.com Cc: 'Classic Rendevous' Subject: RE: [CR]chrome condor

I can appreciate Aaron's annoyance, but I'm not sure the sellers were really unethical. It sounds like they were selling a single bike they had owned for many years, perhaps the only bike they have ever sold. I'd agree that it would be unethical for a bike shop or a major collector to renege on a sale like this, but it is a major pain to have to wait for a check and then sort out the packing and shipping of a bike if you've never done it before and don't ever expect to do it again. In this situation, I can't blame the sellers too much for taking the easy way out and just selling it locally for cash. I don't think I would do that, but I don't blame them.

And I don't think Barry is at fault unless he deliberately tried to persuade the sellers to renege on a deal he knew had been done to sell to him locally for an extra $50. I haven't heard any evidence that was what happened, and I think we have to give Barry the benefit of assuming it did not.

Life is full of disappointments. A couple of years ago, I lost out to Lou Deeter on a Brian Baylis bike for something like $500. I had actually called and given my credit card # before anyone else made payment, but Lou had called earlier and offerred payment, neither of us knowing at the time what the other had done. The seller decided Lou's earlier offer constituted a deal, even though I had been the first to make payment, so he sold the bike to Lou and did not charge my card. I was disappointed, and thought the seller could have as reasonably decided in my favor, but I couldn't really call the decision unfair.

The real irony was that the bike was destroyed when the FedEx (or UPS) truck delivering it caught fire and burned to the ground. Not only did I not take any satisfaction in this, but I think I felt worse than anyone except Lou himself, since I felt a sort of attachement to the bike. Besides, any time a rare classic bike is destroyed, it is a loss to the whole collector community. So at least the Condor survives in excellent condition. That is good regardless which person is its current caretaker.

Regards,

Jerry Moos Big Spring, TX

David Toppin <dave@pelletizer.com> wrote: I would agree that the seller acted inappropriately here. I would also have tried to get them to fax or email me a bill of sale right away, they would have been less likely to back out.

David Toppin dave@pelletizer.com http://www.pelletizer.com <------ see our complete, searchable inventory.

The Pelletizer Group, Inc. 4 LaChance Street Gardner, MA 01440-2476

(978) 669-0060 (978) 669-0061 fax

-----Original Message----- From: classicrendezvous-bounces@bikelist.org [mailto:classicrendezvous-bounces@bikelist.org] On Behalf Of tonythreerings@aol.com Sent: Sunday, May 27, 2007 1:18 PM To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org Subject: Re: [CR]chrome condor

Dale and list,

To clarify: seeing Matthew's posting about the Condor, I called the owner. My first 2 questions were 'is the bike still for sale?' and 'would you ship it to California?' He said yes to both. We chatted pleasantly about the bike for a while; I asked if he took Paypal or a credit card; he said no, send a check, and gave me his address, and said he would call (at my suggestion) a bike shop 2 blocks from his home to see the cost of packing and shipping. I offered to do a wire transfer on Tuesday when the banks opened, but his wife, to whom I was then speaking, said no, the check would be fine.

I sent a check on Friday.

Late last night I saw Bruce's post. I was mighty pissed. Called the owner this AM? and they confirmed that they decided to take the cash in hand (Bruce had offered $50 more than they were asking, which is what they'd agreed to sell to me for). I told them they were unethical, why didn't they call me to match the offer or get someone local to act as my agent, etc, even as I knew I was wasting my time--they'd sold the bike.

Then I contacted Bruce to see if he'd sell. As I told him, I don't really blame him--he is under no obligation to protect my interests. I blame the seller.

They told me they'll send my check back when they get it.

Aaron Lipstadt Hollywood, CA

-----Original Message----- From: oroboyz@aol.com To: breaches@gmail.com; classicrendezvous@bikelist.org Sent: Sun, 27 May 2007 9:34 am Subject: Re: [CR]chrome condor

Wow, my first post caused quite a stir here . Pretty funny?

actually . I've been accused of being dirty, told that the bike doesn't fit?

me by someone i've never met, and received about 10 not so nice emails. So?

to clarify, I have screwed nobody . I was an interested party who was called?

to get the bike after the first person showed up with a check. The other?

person was in CA and Bill and Marlyss did not want to have to ship the bike.?

They wanted to sell local.

Hey Barry:

Thanks for trying to address this issue.

But it's not actually funny to us, people take the ethics of buying & selling very seriously. I certainly didn't accuse you of anything. But I did hope that you would help the others understand how things went down. The same logic and sense of fair play that you must use in your bike shop business would apply here.

You say, "I was an interested party who was called?

to get the bike after the first person showed up with a check. "

Do you mean you learned that a check was not acceptable means of payment to this couple? They asked for cash up front? They would not wait for the buyer to go obtain cash?

So by saying an "interested party" you had offered to buy it if things fell through with other offers? That is a reasonable position for you...

Obviously this is yet another case where amateur sellers are not capable of acting in a business-like manner and therefore things go afowl. Can you imagine a situation where you or I as bike shop owners agreed to sell & & ship something to a customer, then backed out of the agreement because it was too much trouble or someone offered us more? It would be ethically reprehensible to us and our customers alike.

Anyway, obviously it was not of your doing and more that of the sellers' inability to step up to the responsibilty of selling a sought after object. Don't take any off list messages personally, just be on the up-and-up and you will find many wonderful folks on this forum!

Thanks Dale

Dale Brown Greensboro, North Carolina USA http://www.classicrendezvous.com

-----Original Message----- From: bmaster flex

To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org Sent: Sun, 27 May 2007 12:07 pm Subject: [CR]chrome condor

Hi again. Wow, my first post caused quite a stir here . Pretty funny?

actually . I've been accused of being dirty, told that the bike doesn't fit?

me by someone i've never met, and received about 10 not so nice emails. So?

to clarify, I have screwed nobody . I was an interested party who was called?

to get the bike after the first person showed up with a check. The other?

person was in CA and Bill and Marlyss did not want to have to ship the bike.?

They wanted to sell local. Honestly, I feel bad for Bill and Marlys, very?

nice people in their 70's who didn't look like they needed any money. I?

guessed this by where they lived and their beautiful apartment. They were?

people who posted on craigslist- not CR list or even Ebay. It appears that?

they have recieved quite a few not so nice phone calls as well. I knew?

nobody involved or anything about pending transactions other than what I?

stated . I think people are acting pretty childish. This was pretty happy?

moment for me and now its getting kinda ugly.? ?

I hope people can see past this and move on . The bike is amazing , fits me?

well, and will be well loved . I have some similar interests to you all, and?

I hope that every time I take a step i'm not put on trial . This list?

appears to be the best source of info around so please maybe be a little?

kinder.? ?

Lastly, I did get a few kind emails from people on the list so thank you ..? ?

Barry Scott?

Brooklyn, NY? ?

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