Re: [CR]When is a restoration not a restoration?

(Example: Events:Eroica)

From: <"">
Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2007 13:19:52 GMT
Subject: Re: [CR]When is a restoration not a restoration?


I'm with you. Just to begin with, the logistics of getting people

together to communicate on the issues, of which there will be

thousands, and the opinions of each person, are already next to

impossible. The "opinions" vary widely amongst all of us. Who is going

to "win" the debates? The values, once established, will be obsolete

next week.

I have way more than enough work to do for the rest of my life.

Honestly, I need time for my other hobbies of playing drums in surf

and oldies bands, making handmade knives, and making gas powered air

guns. Now I have a 1957 Lambretta to restore; and I can already tell

this won't be the last one.

The LAST thing a professional bike painter wants is touch ups. I've

done more than my share over the years, preserving decals and such.

The time it takes is ridiculous and the money is less than the regular

low wage I earn. By all means, send stuff to Mr. Dixon. Cyclart likes

touch-ups also, apparently. In nearly every case the touch-up will

cost more than the bike is worth. If you're serious about preserving

bikes this way, I suggest you try it yourself and see how much work

and trouble it is.

I'm not certain the next generation will have the same appreciation

that we have for these bikes. Until "we" came along, most of the stuff

was tossed in the landfill or abused to death by the original owners,

who used them for what they were meant for. The enjoyment of riding

them. It's our generation who sort of cares because they are the bikes

that we either owned or wanted to own when we were younger. I sort of

doubt that there will be too many classic bikes collectors in 50 years.

Sure, my knowledge and that of many others here is of importance to

us. And would be important to others in the future as well. But we

seem to be doing fine just the way we are. Furthermore, many of us

sell or trade stuff amongst ourselves and the money involved is not

the primary issue. Finding the right home for the bike is more

important to the people who really care about these bikes. If the

highest bidder gets the stuff, much of the important bikes and parts

will leave the US forever. Parting out bikes will be the most

profitable way to off an exotic piece; and no one in their right mind

would do that for the money. And yet it happens still; by people who

collect bikes for profit. Forget profit and respect the surviving

bikes, give them good homes, and ride them whenever possible.

I suspect you (George) will become comfortable with the system the way

it is as time goes on. Encouraging the value study will do harm to the

hobby in my opinion, just as Gabriel has mentioned. Let it be. Save us

all a lot of work and arguing. Ride and enjoy the bikes for what they


Brian Baylis La Mesa, CA Still looking for the valve caps with the matching serial numbers to

complete my 1968 Ollie Ozone bike. I can not rest until I find ALL the

correct original parts. ;-)

-- gabriel l romeu wrote:

come on Mike, this is an atrocious idea. currently, the impetus for collecting bikes is as varied as the amount of people participating. Codifying the values would suddenly make certain collections more 'legitimate' based on value. The diversity and interesting approaches to collecting bicycles will suddenly drop because of the new influx of investment collectors. The novice collector will not go by her heart

in choosing the bike, there are those 'value' contingencies.

setting values on symbolic items such as coins and stamps are one

thing, but placing it on functional items are a completely different and diabolical to the discipline. All of a sudden, every time one takes out a bike to ride they will be lessening it's value. Personal attitudes towards amassing a collection are now directed by a 'guide' as opposed to what one grew up with. For example, the interesting debate on refinishing all of a sudden ends up as a mute point, because rarity will be the determinate. The pristine out of the factory will always trump the refinish. Most of the subjective and interesting discussions on our list are essentially eliminated as collective judgment has more bearing on value rather than quirky individual assessments on other aspects such as ridability and looks.

As i mentioned before, this happened with cameras eliminating the availability of certain types necessary for doing particular types of work back in the seventies. this has happened also with hand

woodworking tools. Try and find a good hand jointer plane for less than a fortune out there.

It happened with those classic cars. now they are only driven to and from shows. what a great driving experience!

Anybody want to take this debate to cirque? wrote:
> Why just lay this on the shoulders of one person? Set a task force,
> publish and sell the results. Donate the profits to Operation Smile
> and the cost of operating future Cirque.
> Mikey Schmidt BattleGround Inn 4th Floor


gabriel l romeu chesterfield nj usa, on my way to cirque tomorrow ± Ø ±