> Brian: In some sense your concerns regarding the movement of
> collectable bikes into private collections ( especially foreign
> collections) is quite legitimate. Any collectable that moves
> into a private collection is not necessarily going to be
> appreciated directly by other collectors. That's why
> exhibitions, etc. are such a good thing. I thought (not
> everybody agrees) that a guide would also be helpful to form a
> reference for bikes that might not be seen so soon again, if at
> all. Some collectors objected to the inclusion of price in such
> a guide.
> But, in my opinion, concerns regarding auctions and movement of
> collectables, including vintage bikes, probably are slightly
> misplaced. For all I can see, auctions, eBay auctions in
> particular, are probably causing a movement of European bikes
> into the USA! Some countries prohibit objects they regard as
> patrimony from being sent out of their country. I for one would
> hate to see Italy adopt such a policy toward their vintage bikes!
> I think the net effect of auctions is to distribute objects into
> the hands of new collectors and, sometimes, to other countries.
> A guide to vintage steel bikes would help everyone and in many ways.
> George Hollenberg MD
> Westport, CT, USA
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "brianbaylis@juno.com"
> Date: Tuesday, June 12, 2007 11:55 am
> Subject: Re: [CR]Re: When is a restoration not a restoration?
> To: sirkevinwulf@ozemail.com.au
> Cc: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
>
> >
> > Jeff,
> >
> > Sorry for my general statement. I was referring to the
> > situations in
> >
> > the past when certain things, French classic bikes in
> > particular, were
> >
> > going to Japanese bidders who were offering REALLY high bids
> for
> > that
> >
> > sort of thing. The effect of that was that the eBay prices on
> > the
> >
> > stuff got to be astronomical. In addition to that, once the
> > bikes and
> >
> > parts went to Japan, us here in the states where the stuff was
> > being
> >
> > auctioned, and where much of it spent it's service life, would
> > not be
> >
> > seen by the collectors here at the shows and rides ever again.
> >
> > It seems that maybe that condition has lessened in recent
> years;
> > but I
> >
> > don't follow eBay very much. On account of eBay, many of the
> > people
> >
> > have become familiar with others in the hobby and have taken
> up
> >
> > dealing amongst themselves these days.
> >
> > No offense meant to any foreign country; not even Japan. I
> would
> >
> > assume any owner interested in buying the stuff would give the
> > objects
> >
> > a good home. But once the stuff leaves, it rarely comes back
> to
> > the
> >
> > States and we hardly never see the stuff in the collections.
> >
> > Brian Baylis
> > La Mesa, CA
> >
> > -- Jeff wrote:
> > Brian,
> >
> > I agree with almost everything you say. "The "opinions" vary
> >
> > widely
> >
> > amongst all of us" - couldn't agree more! Most times I see a
> CR
> > post
> >
> > talking about the high price an item got on eBay, I'm thinking
> > "Gee,
> >
> > that
> >
> > doesn't sound too outrageous". There's a downside to all this
> > sun and
> >
> > surf
> >
> > and whatnot in Australia..... Anyway, I'm not too sure about
> > this
> >
> > though:
> >
> > "Finding the right home for the bike is more important to the
> > people
> >
> > who
> >
> > really care about these bikes. If the highest bidder gets the
> > stuff,
> >
> > much
> >
> > of the important bikes and parts will leave the US forever".
> >
> > Many/most of the bikes owned by CR members were built in
> >
> > countries
> >
> > other than the US. Many Italians, Brits, French and even
> Aussies
> >
> > might
> >
> > have a thing or two to say about how these bikes ended up in
> the
> > US in
> >
> > the
> >
> > first place (highest bidders??). Are we foreigners incapable
> of
> >
> > providing
> >
> > a good home? Oh well, perhaps I am just hoping that more nice
> >
> > bikes/parts
> >
> > are to be found in Australia at some point!!
> >
> > Wishing I could go to Cirque....
> >
> > Best,
> > Jeff
> > Melb, Australia
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > > Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2007 13:19:52 GMT
> > > From: "brianbaylis@juno.com"
> > > To: romeug@comcast.net
> > > Cc: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
> > > Cc: classicrendezvous-bounces@bikelist.org
> > > Subject: Re: [CR]When is a restoration not a restoration?
> > > Message-ID: <20070607.061952.18731.0@webmail08.lax.untd.com>
> > > Content-Type: text/plain
> > > MIME-Version: 1.0
> > > Precedence: list
> > > Message: 1
> > >
> > >
> > > Gabriel,
> > >
> > > I'm with you. Just to begin with, the logistics of getting people
> > >
> > > together to communicate on the issues, of which there will be
> > >
> > > thousands, and the opinions of each person, are already next to
> > >
> > > impossible. The "opinions" vary widely amongst all of us.
> Who
> > is
> >
> > going
> > >
> > > to "win" the debates? The values, once established, will be
> obsolete> >
> > > next week.
> > >
> > > I have way more than enough work to do for the rest of my life.
> > >
> > > Honestly, I need time for my other hobbies of playing drums
> in surf
> > >
> > > and oldies bands, making handmade knives, and making gas
> > powered air
> > >
> > > guns. Now I have a 1957 Lambretta to restore; and I can
> > already tell
> > >
> > > this won't be the last one.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > I'm not certain the next generation will have the same
> appreciation> >
> > > that we have for these bikes. Until "we" came along, most of
> > the
> >
> > stuff
> > >
> > > was tossed in the landfill or abused to death by the
> original
> > owners,>
> > > who used them for what they were meant for. The enjoyment of
> riding> >
> > > them. It's our generation who sort of cares because they are
> > the
> >
> > bikes
> > >
> > > that we either owned or wanted to own when we were younger.
> I
> > sort of
> > >
> > > doubt that there will be too many classic bikes collectors
> in
> > 50
> >
> > years.
> > >
> > > Sure, my knowledge and that of many others here is of
> > importance to
> > >
> > > us. And would be important to others in the future as well.
> > But we
> > >
> > > seem to be doing fine just the way we are. Furthermore, many
> > of us
> > >
> > > sell or trade stuff amongst ourselves and the money involved
> > is not
> > >
> > > the primary issue. Finding the right home for the bike is more
> > >
> > > important to the people who really care about these bikes.
> If the
> > >
> > > highest bidder gets the stuff, much of the important bikes
> and parts
> > >
> > > will leave the US forever. Parting out bikes will be the most
> > >
> > > profitable way to off an exotic piece; and no one in their
> > right mind
> > >
> > > would do that for the money. And yet it happens still; by
> > people who
> > >
> > > collect bikes for profit. Forget profit and respect the surviving
> > >
> > > bikes, give them good homes, and ride them whenever possible.
> > >
> > > I suspect you (George) will become comfortable with the
> system
> > the
> >
> > way
> > >
> > > it is as time goes on. Encouraging the value study will do
> > harm to
> >
> > the
> > >
> > > hobby in my opinion, just as Gabriel has mentioned. Let it
> be.
> > Save
> >
> > us
> > >
> > > all a lot of work and arguing. Ride and enjoy the bikes for
> > what they
> > >
> > > are.
> > >
> > > Brian Baylis
> > > La Mesa, CA
> > > Still looking for the valve caps with the matching serial
> > numbers to
> > >
> > > complete my 1968 Ollie Ozone bike. I can not rest until I
> find
> > ALL
> >
> > the
> > >
> > > correct original parts. ;-)
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > _______________________________________________
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> >
>
> George Hollenberg MD
> CT, USA
>
George Hollenberg MD
CT, USA