Re: [CR]Mysteries of framebuilding


Example: Racing:Jean Robic

Date: Fri, 01 Jun 2007 09:10:44 -0400
From: gabriel l romeu <romeug@comcast.net>
To: "brianbaylis@juno.com" <brianbaylis@juno.com>
Subject: Re: [CR]Mysteries of framebuilding
References: <20070601.001759.784.502604@webmail24.lax.untd.com>
In-Reply-To: <20070601.001759.784.502604@webmail24.lax.untd.com>
cc: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
cc: nickzz@mindspring.com
cc: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org

And Bob, as a furniture maker and painter, and knowing many others, I could not agree with you more. there are those that think of their objects as 'children', and hoard their objects- George Orr, the mad potter of Biloxi, was a classic case and point (check out his work, most interesting turn of the past century

ceramics). When i am done with a piece, I would just as soon discard it (better yet

sell it), I am only thinking of forging ahead. this is both with my canvasses and 3d objects. Also, which may be related, is that i usually

'hate' the finished piece until there is a period of time in between which allows objectivity. I think this is part of the impetus to innovate. Another thing that i dislike is to redo a piece. as to the money thing, I am notorious for not following up with billing and that sort of thing, that is why i hand all that over to my gallery. So this money thing is totally irrelevant. Oh, and the music- my attitude was also as you said cause the next performance would always be better. I was extremely self critical, could not listen to recordings of myself, hated to perform and again the

impetus was to approach an unachievable perfection. I stopped playing precisely because of the intense frustration. I could not do it for personal enjoyment, I could hear the brilliance of others. I think you made an excellent assessment Bob.

I did see the PBS special on crafts in america, no framebuilders (many other disciplines unrepresented) but many of my friends and acquaintances were included. Gary Bennett is far more of a cad than represented in the program, quite the entertainment. Sam Maloof drove to our conference in Tempe az in a red porsche, Mira Nakashima is a sweet as she was depicted, Rita took quite a liking to her in Philadelphia. Vivian Bier from Penland is a dynamo and her girl friend furniture maker is one of those people that I most look forward to seeing at conference. Jan Yager as brilliant as her work speaks- she was in the same studio system as i years ago. And the crafts community really supported Ken Loeber after his stroke some years ago, a real icon

in the jewelry field, but a shame that his wife's (who is a really fine woman) baskets were never spotlighted as his necklaces. Tom Joyce was incredibly generous, as many of you are, on a mailing list i was quite active with some years ago. I did not know any of the ceramiscists, and

wish i knew a couple of the basketmakers.

btw, one of the things to keep in mind is that quilt making has been relegated to 'women's craft' and never had the worth it justly deserved for the work involved. Even now Rita is participating in a quilt fund raising thing on ebay for breast cancer (she made 2), some of the beautiful quilts are going for minimum, far below 'fast food wages'. We

have been buying them for all our gifts for the upcoming holidays, our extended family will be warm for the winter. http://tinyurl.com/22rtrd

I don't think that this has been off topic, we are dealing with making functional objects and what goes on behind the production. There are many different reasons and motivations, these are mine. c ya at cirque...

gabriel romeu being abandoned by four of the finest in the state of new jersey, chesterfield (town) in the usa

brianbaylis@juno.com wrote:
> Bob,
>
> Albert is somewhat like you describe. But his main interest is in the
>
> new bikes they are building at any given time. One reason. There is no
>
> money in the older bikes. Only the current bikes generate income. The
>
> old bikes are just attached to people who want to know more about them
>
> and waste his time asking questions. I found Ernesto Colnago to be
>
> exactly the same way, upon the one occasion I had the opportunity to
>
> ask him if there were any early 70's bikes floating around in Italy.
>
> As a musician myself, I have to give a different perspective on
>
> performing music. During the process of playing music, at least for me
>
> it requires a lot of concentration. Also the balance of the entire
>
> presentation is not best heard from my vantage point. I have to admit,
>
> listening to recordings of performances and rehearsals is something I
>
> enjoy tremendously. Two reasons. I can hear the entire work from the
>
> perspective of the audience. Second, it is by far the best way to hear
>
> what needs to be improved or hear the things I didn't hear while
>
> performing the music. 90% of the music I listen to are recording of
>
> groups I've played with over the years. Actually more satisfying than
>
> playing the music, which for me involves a certain amount of stress
>
> and intense concentration.
>
> Insofar as framebuilding goes; my primary joy is in building the bike
>
> and using my brains and my hands to create it. To have others tell me
>
> they love their bike or think my work is great is good and all that;
>
> but it does not compare to actually doing the work. Riding my bikes is
>
> fun too; but I have LOTS of great bikes and most of them are a joy to
>
> ride. Builders who only ride their own bikes are very shortsighted and
>
> stand to miss a lot that can be learned from other peoples work.
>
> Making lots of bikes for oneself is great also. I've made over 50
>
> bikes for myself over the last 35 years. That's how you learn. Ride
>
> everything. Make a variety of bikes and learn as much as you can about
>
> each one that is within your area of interest.
>
> Brian Baylis
> La Mesa, CA
>
> -- "Bob Hovey" <bobhoveyga@aol.com> wrote:
> Oh, and there's more to the story... this lady went for years trying
>
> to
>
> figure out ways NOT to sell her work. She gave quilts to relatives,
>
> then
>
> friends, then her doctor, dentist, and hairdresser. When her output
>
> finally
>
> outstripped her supply of friends, she would just spread the most
>
> recent
>
> quilt on the bed in her guest room. When I met her, they went at
>
> least two
>
> dozen deep on that bed. But still her attitude remained that she was
>
> not
>
> going to pollute her one real joy in life by taking money for it. In
>
> the
>
> back of her mind I think she knew that they would get sold someday,
>
> just not
>
> by her... perhaps her daughter would sell them after she died to put
>
> her
>
> granchildren thru college or something.
>
> The return she got from her quilting brings up an interesting point,
>
> one
>
> that's worth examining because we all know that almost no one becomes
>
> a
>
> framebuilder thinking they will make a lot of money... almost everyone
>
> has
>
> other reasons, some of them perhaps bordering on compulsion. So what
>
> is the
>
> primary source of satisfaction artists and craftsmen get from their
>
> work? I
>
> know quite a few painters who admire the work they've done and always
>
> keep a
>
> few of their best pieces on the wall (if they can afford to), and I
>
> know
>
> many craftsmen who enjoy using the objects they create, including
>
> quite a
>
> few framebuilders who really enjoy riding their own bikes.
>
> But I know other artists who could care less about a piece once it is
>
> done.
>
> For them, the only real joy is in the doing, and once a work is
>
> completed it
>
> becomes an object like any other and they exhibit a peculiar
>
> disconnection
>
> or even disdain for the piece. Several folks have mentioned on the
>
> list
>
> that Eisentraut may be a bit like this, he seems to display no
>
> interest at
>
> all in his past work and expresses amusement and puzzlement over those
>
> who
>
> do. Perhaps these people are more like musicians than traditional
>
> artists... because once the last note of a piece of music fades, it is
>
> no
>
> more. All that is left for the musician who only feels truly alive
>
> when he
>
> is playing is to continually look to the next song.
>
> Bob Hovey
> Columbus, GA
>
>
> Brian Writes:
>
> If I could do as the quilter did (alas, I'm not a receptionist), I
> would do so also. The pleasure and satisfaction of spending enough
> time on a frame to make it purposful and unique at the same time is
> satisfaction enough to feed the soul and give purpose to life. The
> only standards that I have lowered in order to continue as I do are my
> standard of living. There are other ways to approach the situation,
> but the system I abide by works for me.
>
> Brian Baylis
> La Mesa, CA
>
>
> -- BobHoveyGa@aol.com wrote:
> <snipped> I knew a wonderful quilter
> who
> worked as a receptionist and gave her quilts away only to those she
> felt would
> appreciate them. She would spend several hundred hours on a quilt
> and for her it
> was all about love, so she was not about to hand it over to strangers
> for
> money.
>
> Bob Hovey
> Columbus, GA USA