The remarks at the top and bottom of Jerry's rumination reflect the tension between craft and art don't they? On the one hand, there's a supply of bikes built by excellent craftsmen, products of CRAFTSMANSHIP that some would like to have thought of as art. With a story, successful promotion, some become legendary. Or recognized brands, at least. Other builders are the responses to inquiries, such as I found I found in archives here: "Will you name some excellent frame builders many of us haven't heard of?" Like Machado's Juan de Mairena advised would be poets "Work on your legend. Without one, nobody passes into history."
With well-designed web pages--the result of collaboration of (also uncelebrated) page designers, graphic artists, and their firms, credited or not,--and the canny brand creation achieved in part by collaboration/contracting with a talented painter (also employing unnamed graphic artists) some of those 200 Italian frame builders could have been the celebrity frame builders of today.
Maybe some of them have.
said Harry Travis Washington, DC USA
, stirred by: Jerome & Elizabeth Moos <jerrymoos@sbcglobal.net>'s message of: Wednesday 26 Sep 07 at 12:31 PM, On: Re: [CR]Pre-American Confente bikes [echoed below, in part<=1] -oOo- Nice bike, but what strikes me is that this is an absolutely typical handbuilt Italian bike from 1973. There must have been at least 200 builders in Italy at the time capable of producing that frame. Take away the decals, spade cutouts and the BB "M", and I doubt you could tell which of the 200 guys built it. And even with the spades, there could probably be two dozen suspects. This gets back to the recent discussion of why a very few marques command a much higher price than everything else. As I may have commented then, I think the price of Confentes is based on the drama of his story and his connection to the CA Masi operation where half the top US framebuilders of a generation seem to have worked at one time, and whose product was a central character in the best known US cycling film of all time. Had Confente stayed in Italy, I'm convinced he would today be just one of 200 excellent Italian framebuilders no one outside Italy ever heard of. As to value, given that Confente did come to America and play a central role in the CA Masi saga, and die young, I would expect that this bike would command the same sort of high price that one of his US-era frames usually fetches. I'm personally as moved as the next guy by a compelling saga, but I'd rather spend the price of a Confente on five or six frames by equally excellent but comparatively obscure builders. Regards, Jerry Moos Big Spring, TX
John Waner <x76911s@socal.rr.com> wrote: Brad, as far as I know it is a 1973. I have posted some pictures of the bike on Wool-Jersey, http://www.wooljersey.com/gallery/John-Waner-Bikes/1973+Crema +Confente/
These pictures were taken to document the condition of the bike upon its receipt. To me it showed that the bike was ridden hard but not abused. I was told that this bike and one other that i received were built by Mario for a friend and team-mate of his (local club team?). I was told it was built in 1973, most of the dated parts seem to back that up. the bottom bracket and steering tube are both stamped with a number "1". I think this means that this was the first bike he built once he had decided on the graphics and spade cut-outs (the over all look) he wanted for the bike to be marketed under his own name. This bike was not the first he ever built besides the ones he built under contract for other builders, like Masi. The other Confente I received is a earlier build (estimate 1970-71), it doesn't feature the spade cut outs, it had been repainted, so I have no idea what the original graphics (if any) looked like. As to how many other Confentes were built in italy with the Confente decals, I have no idea, but I don't think it would be many because Mario came over to the US in 1973 with Faliero Masi. During that year would he not have been making bikes under contract to Faliero, so how much time could he of had to market and construct bikes under his own name, prior to the move?
As to whether the italian Confentes would affect the value (or selling price) of a US Confente, I don't think so. As to the value of a italian built Confente, that would have to be determined by the market. I have no intention of ever selling mine, so I don't know how it can be evaluated without another one been sold on the open market. To me this one (Crema Confente, or #1) is just as desirable as a US Confente, if not more, at least until others turn up.
To me it is not about the monetary value of the bike, I just feel so very lucky been able to get it and share it with others that appreciate it.
John Waner Huntington Beach, CA.
On Sep 25, 2007, at 7:26 PM, brad stockwell wrote:
> On the topic of the Confente pictured in
> http://chainedrevolution.com/
_______________________________________________ Classicrendezvous mailing list Classicrendezvous@bikelist.org http://www.bikelist.org/mailman/listinfo/classicrendezvous
--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- _______________________________________________ Classicrendezvous mailing list Classicrendezvous@bikelist.org http://www.bikelist.org/mailman/listinfo/classicrendezvous HPT -- ----------------------------------------------------------- travis.dot.harry.trying.gmail.com DemostiX