Re: [CR]Spoke and spoke count on old track iron... now track rims and Campy track hubs

(Example: Framebuilding:Tubing)

MailScanner-NULL-Check: 1203360185.14189@OmNHtw/druiZCI6WVNTOKg
Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2008 13:45:40 -0500
From: "George Allen" <>
Subject: Re: [CR]Spoke and spoke count on old track iron... now track rims and Campy track hubs
References: <> <004d01c86cdb$43bf5770$0200a8c0@D8XCLL51>
In-Reply-To: <004d01c86cdb$43bf5770$0200a8c0@D8XCLL51>


I know there were track specific rims in the mid-1970's but were these used exclusively. Did track riders use light road rims as well i.e. Fiamme Ergals, Mavic Record du Monde de l'Heures. Also, what was the evolution of the Campy one-piece shell track hub. Was there an early "no-Record" variant as in the road hubs? Weren't there versions with oiler holes and clips and versions without? I'm looking to purchase or build up some mid-1970's track wheels and I'm trying to stay period correct. BTW, if anyone has a nice, appropriate track wheelset, I have lots to trade. Sorry to ask such stupid questions but we had/have no tracks around here and I'm building up my first track bike.

Thanks as Always,

George Allen Lexington, Ky USA

ternst wrote:
> Traditionally track bike riders usually used 36/36; 32/36 if lighter
> guys; 36/40 if heavier guys; and occassionally a 32/40 but that was
> usually on road and mostly in England.
> First you have to differentiate "riding" on the track for exercise, or
> racing type performance with jumps, standing starts, sprints, etc.
> A MA2 rim is a clincher, and NOBODY road clinchers on the track years
> ago. PERIOD!
> The older clinchers were made with taper protectors (strips) and would
> give an uneven response while riding because of the thick and thin of
> the rubber.
> A track tire is more even thickness in the strip so the control, feel
> , and response is more accurate for performance.
> Only in these last few years are they letting people ride/race with
> clinchers on the track as the clinchers have become higher pressure
> and performance oriented.
> Riders seek out the clinchers that are a rubber base and not silcone
> base so they are not slippery on the banking.
> Rolling around on a flat type cement or asphalt track is a big
> difference than a steep board oval, so when I tell you this keep in
> mind where and how you will ride.
> The old MA2 is softer old technology material.
> The new aero type rims and materials are far stiffer and stronger so
> you can use less spokes and be plenty rigid.
> Look at all the 3 & 4 spoke wheels of today.
> If you will ride around for a regular paceline and training sessions
> without cavorting about aggressively, then you can get away with 32
> and maybe even 28 spokes, but I would stick with 36 and 3 or 4 cross
> as good general riding wheels for long lasting and trouble free riding.
> Be careful on tire pressure selection, too. The older rims have to get
> the right tires to hold the bead and have high pressure so they won't
> blow off.
> That's why the newer rims of standard cross sections and the matching
> tires may be adviseable to look at before assembling MA2's
> Get your retro look but remember safety and get performance, too.
> Ted Ernst
> Palos Verdes Estates
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bianca Pratorius"
> <>
> To: <>
> Sent: Monday, February 11, 2008 4:18 AM
> Subject: [CR]Spoke and spoke count on old track iron
>> The road bikes I own have either 32 or 36 small flange hubs with
>> three cross and 14/15 double butted stainless steel spokes. I have
>> never bent a rim on the roads I ride with a weight of 150 plus
>> pounds. I have broken a spoke here or there but only on wheels that
>> had straight gauge spokes and were built by someone other than myself.
>> For an average rider like me using high flange hubs what would have
>> been the recommended spoke count for a track bike used on the track ?
>> Can I get away with a 32 spoke count and Dt 15/16 db spokes cross
>> three ? Have the spokes improved sufficiently over older stuff that I
>> can safely build up this kind of a light wheel for mostly track use ?
>> I also plan to use Mavic MA 2 rims if I can still find them.
>> Garth Libre in Miami Fl USA
>> _______________________________________________
> _______________________________________________

This message has been scanned for viruses and
dangerous content by MailScanner, and is
believed to be clean.