Re: [CR]re: old de rosa value..- market is changing!

(Example: Component Manufacturers)

Date: Wed, 21 May 2008 22:03:24 -0400
From: "Harvey Sachs" <>
Subject: Re: [CR]re: old de rosa value..- market is changing!
To: Classic Rendezvous <>,

I have enormous respect for Mike Kone and his knowledge of the bike market, but was struck by how different our perspectives are on this matter (if I read his first paragraph correctly). WRT the "the Cinelli 1960 high-patina-but-gorgeous frame that sold last week," I was pleased for the seller, a friend, who got what I felt was a very nice price for a pretty rough frame and fork, a real premium because of its vintage and what-it-had-been. Enough so that I mentioned it to my wife. I've bought two complete early 70s Cinelli SC bikes for less (each), both with much less chrome but much less patina. But, Mike may be right, and I may just be an opportunistic bottom-feeder who happens to live where bargains are occasionally found.

harvey sachs mcLean va usa +++++++++++++++ Brother Mike Kone wrote: I think a big issue right now is that there is a shifting focus to 80's super record bikes. The DeRosa under question, the early need-a-new-restoration early Masi Pista that Scott Davis sold awhile ago, and the Cinelli 1960 high-patina-but-gorgeous frame that sold last week all indicate a market shift. There simply is no market depth to the market for these machines.

What the market is saying is that bicycles built with stamped lugs (more time intensive) from what I think was a glorious time period (the era of Merckx) are not floating the boats of many perhaps newbies to the hobby. Part of this is - and this will offend - indicates a lack of framebuilding knowledge on the part of many buyers. Years ago our Gita rep said the biggest enhancement to framebuilding from a manufacturers perspective was the introduction of new paint primers that were great at hiding blems. Add that to cast lugs, and we are getting closer to the "plug and play" frame construction than many would want to admit.

It was interesting that a recent post by a graduate of the UBI frame building program had to jump to cast lugs since the stamped ones were too much of a project. There is a very important message in that.

So is this good or bad? Well I've thinned out much of my bike stable lately, and if the market decides to reward the mass-produced ($*%( and undervalues the "good stuff", I think I may be all for it as I will go into a buy-mode at some point again perhaps. But am I planning at the moment to revise the price guide I wrote years ago? Not until I can make sense of this market that has no basis in reason as I understand it.

Mike Kone in Boulder CO USA - where the air is dry and the lugs are handmade. Boulder Bicycle Rene Herse Bicycles Inc. and Housingmetrics too!