Interesting. I got my first Frejus from Tommy in 1970. It used a German i nch-pitch chain with a c-clip. They were, I'm pretty certain, his pref erred chain to use. He made a specific point of this several times.
Maybe I'm mistaken, but I believe that Izumi uses a screw connection. Ar e there any trademarks or writing on your chain to identify the brand?
regards, Steve James Bx., NY> Date: Fri, 4 Jul 2008 08:39:29 -0700> From: harryschwartzman@y ahoo.com> To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org> Subject: [CR]Block Chain scre w> > My Frejus, with an inch pitch block chain, uses the screw and nut method, I> t was like that when I bought it and since the bike was bone s tock it must > have been how it came, most probably out of Avenia's shop as I am in New Yo> rk City. Occasionally I have to tighten the nut and I've found that hand ti> ghtening works the best, as it loosens whether I use a tool or not.
H> appy Fourth to all, and my condolences to th e British on the list for the l> oss of their Colonies and the revenue stre am from the tea tax.
-Harry > Schwartzman
Long Island City,
NY
Fr> om: "classicrendezvous -request@bikelist.org" <classicrendezvous-request@bik> elist.org> To: c lassicrendezvous@bikelist.org Sent: Friday, July 4, 200> 8 11:04:02 AM Subject: Classicrendezvous Digest, Vol 67, Issue 17
Se
> nd Classicrendezvous mailing list submissions to
classicrendezvous@b
i> kelist.org
To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web
, visit>
http://www.bikelist.org/
or, via> email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
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CR
Today's Topics:
1. Wool Fans ..> . Think Pink !! (Robert Cla ir) 2. 1970's Zeus decals (Tom Jue) 3.> California Masi In Time f or July 4th (Ron Danner) 4. c.1960> Viking 'The 25 Model', stu ff wanted, Tales from the Bike Shop... (> Larry Myers) 5. BIANC HI LEGNANO original decal 1935's (Giorgio Panciro> li) 6. RE: Re: Clas sicrendezvous Digest, Vol 67, Issue 13 WAIT Wheel> weight! (Neil Foddering) 7. Ebay Outing (Hilary Stone)> 8. 1*3/16" Roller chai n master links (Harvey Sachs) 9. Re: Cirqu> e bike classification: "or iginal" v. "restored" (Harvey Sachs) > 10. Re: Semi-annual stuck seatpost thread (Harvey Sachs) 11. Is THIS w> hy I haven't seen many C olumbus seatposts? (devotion finesse) > 12. Early High-End Trek
13. Re: reply to stuck seatpost discussion (Joh> n Betmanis) =0 A -------------------------------------------------------> ------------ ---
Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2008 22:13:03 -0500 From: "Robert C> la ir" <r.clair@cox.net> To: <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org> Subject: [> CR]Wool Fans ... Think Pink !! Message-ID: <001001c8dd83$df64f950$0 202a8c> 0@Leo> References: <005201c8dd3b$feefda80$6701a8c0@gatewaygpcez cz> > <BAY123-W7E92253BA9C2300B5BB5ED1980@phx.gbl> <8801bb2508070 31333k24e9> f83gb6d04e98bf96024d@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/pla in;format=fl> owed;charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=origin al MIME-Version: 1.> 0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Preceden ce: list Message: 1
..> . alex has added a neat "Think Pink' b it.
robert clair alexa ndria, va 22308 usa -----------------------> -------
Dat
e: Thu, 3 Jul 2008 21:46:53 -0700 (PDT)
From: Tom Jue <fy> rtom@yahoo
.com>
To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
Subject: [CR]1970's > Zeus
decals
Message-ID: <38393.56796.qm@web51809.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Co
> ntent-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
MIME-Version: 1.0
Preceden> ce: list Reply-To: fyrtom@yahoo.com Message: 2
H i,
Just want> ed to know if anyone might have a set of these in their vintage dr awer(s> ).
http://ebay.com/
I just missed out on the a> uction and have a restoration p roject going on no w. The original decals> are somewhat shot.
Thanks, Tom Jue San Francisco, CA
---> StripMime
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lain (text body -- kept)
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> -------
Date: Fri, 4 Jul 2008 00:57:45 -0400 From: "Ron Da nner" <ron> .danneur@gmail.com> To: "Classicrendezvous@Bikelist.Org" <C lassicrendezvo> us@bikelist.org> Subject: [CR]California Masi In Time f or July 4th Mess> age-ID: <5da6a790807032157v763883beybc34e337add242c8@ mail.gmail.com> Cont> ent-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Tr> ansfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: lis t Message: 3
Greetings fellow> 2 wheelers:
I spent th e evening reassembling a sterling shining Calif> ornia Twin Plate Masi. A friend of mine rescued such Masi from the bowles> of a midwester cav e. He had it repainted redecaled and I helped him sel> ect and assemble suitable kit: all Campagnolo NR, Cinelli 64-40 bars, tu> bulars and0Aa stunning Red San Marco Regal.
Something was quite cool > and e phemeral about the reassembly of this american classic on the eve of> J uly 4th. My pal had mis-purchased cable housing so we ended up using a> stretch of blue on the front and red for the rear.
Wheels trued u p--h> eadset solid and chain tension just so for the perfect NR shift a nd the t> est ride was on. All I heard was the gleeful yips and yowls o f my pal as> sub 50 California Masi raced though the darkness--a perfect re d white an> d blue............
Happy 4th all........
-- Ron Danner Hop B> ottom Township Susquehanna PA USA 0A
- -----------------------------
Date: Fri, 4 Ju> l 2008 00:25:54 -
0700 (PDT)
From: Larry Myers <curmudgeon1957@yahoo.com>>
To: class
icrendezvous@bikelist.org
Subject: [CR]
c.1960 Viking 'The > 25 Mod
el', stuff wanted, Tales from the Bike Shop...
Message-ID: <688160.
> 60289.qm@web55403.mail.re4.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; cha
rset> =iso-8859-1
MIME-Version: 1.0
Precedence: list
Reply-To
: curmudgeon> 1957@yahoo.com
Message: 4
Howdy, all...
I just scored a c.1> 960 Viking track/path racer ('The 25 Model'
is proudly e
mblazoned on the> toptube, just aft of the Nervex headl
ugs) from it's origin
al owner, via> craigslist; I would love to he
ar from anyone on the CR list w
ho can tel> l me more about this partic
ular bike.....I bought the frameset on
ly, and> have set it up with a
ll French & British parts. The seller says t
hat it> originally came wi
th steel cranks (most likely Williams?); I have so
me > Durax cranks
that would look nice on it, but all of the compatible cotte
> red-typ
e axles that I own are too long to get me a good chain line, so I am> 0Alooking for a cottered-type BB axle that will work for a pista setup, o
r> a
complete Williams (or BSA) crankset.......sweet parts available fo
r tr> ade
(or filthy lucre, if nessecary). Bonus points (or dollars)
for havin> g the r
ight cotters; I hate grinding them........:)
I will be post> ing pics of this bike (as well as some mystery frames that I would appre> ciate help in identifying; I know some of you g uys LIVE for this sort of > thing...) over the next few days; ke ep an eye out....
The joys of > working in a bike shop: =0 AGot to do a frame repair on a beautiful Mauri> zzio 'Gran Prix' today; g orgeo us late 60's-early 70's road bike- I have > seen only one other o f these bike s...this one got t-boned by a car on it> 's first ride aft er being stored for almost 20 years, I am very proud of > being able to make the damage complete ly disappear; and I will post pict> ures of the bike once I have the owner' s approval...another customer cam> e in today, looking to build up a batter ed & bent Peugeot UO-8 frame int> o a fixie- pretty typical request around he re, except for one t hing....c> rammed unremoveably into the frame's steerer t ube, was a steel Cinelli r> oad stem (with badge!), in good condition, that h
ad to date to the late > 50's or so. The customer "likes the long reach", and absolutely refused t> o part with the stem, or the frame it is f used into... .I also got to res> cue a mid/late 50's Frejus 'Tour de Fr ance' frame fr om fixie purgatory;> so the week wasn't a total loss!
Swap Meet @ The Recyclery July 13t> h; lots of on-topic stuff generally shows up. Link to http://www.TheRecyclery.co> m for more info....0A Cheers to all, Larry Myers, Portland, OR, USA> =0 A
------------------------------
Date: Fri , 4 Jul 2008 09> :28:09 +0200 From: "Giorgio Panciroli" <info@vintage transfers.it> To: <> classicrendezvous@bikelist.org> Subject: [CR]B IANCHI LEGNANO original dec> al 1935's Message-ID: <274FDDB76D954770903 61D7A4415B09F@mirella77239f1>> Content-Type: text/plain;charset="i so-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Pr> ecedence: list Message: 5
Hello all,
I have put in auction on ebay> a very important ORIGI
NALDecal for
Bianchi, Legnano and other Italian r> aging bike bike f
rom 1935's for
under saddleback. If you want you can s> ee it on :=0
A
http://ebay.com/
All the best
Giorgio Panciroli
Reggio Emilia
Ita
lia
>
multipart/al> ternative text/plain (text body -- kept) te xt/html --- --------> ----------------------
Date: Fri, 4 Jul 2008 08:09:30 +0000 From: Ne> il Foddering <neilfoddering@hotmail .com> To: <crumpy6204@aol.com>, <class> icrendezvous@bikelist.org>0ASubject: RE: [CR]Re: Classicrendezvous Digest,> Vol 67, Issue 13 WAIT Wheel weight! Message-ID: <BAY141-W772E96EF> A2AA7843F08A5BF9B0@p hx.gbl> In-Reply-To: <c6b.35c8daa6.359ee569@aol.com>> References: <c6b.35c8daa6.359ee569@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; > charset ="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Precedence: list Message: 6>
I can see where you went wrong, John. I read in an old "Cy
cling" > magazin
e the habits of some "crack" riders, and some of the
m smoked. 60> a day a
nd roadster tyres, and you'd have mullered the
opposition.
> Neil Foddering
Weymouth, Dorset, England=0
A
> From: Crumpy6204@aol.c> om
> Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2008 22:31
:05 -0400
> To: classicrendezvous@bikel> ist.org
> Subject: [CR]Re:
Classicrendezvous Digest, Vol 67, Issue 13 WA> IT Whe
el weight!
>
> In ALL the years I raced Time trails in Bri> t land, I do N
OT remember E
VER
> racing on my heavy training wheels.> Maybe per
this I should have! I tri
ed
> shaving my legs, Brylcream> ,F
ull English breckie. Even a PINT! Oh wel
l! I tried.
> Cheers John
> Crump OldstilshavemylegsBrit. Parker, Co USA
>
>
>
> **********> ****Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for
>
fuel-efficient u> sed cars. (http://autos.aol.com/used?ncid=aolaut00
050000000007)>
>
>
> _______________________________________
________
> Classicrendezvous > mailing list
> Classicrendezvous@bik
elist.org
> http://www.bikelist.org> /mailman/listinfo/classicrendezvou
s
__________________________________> ____________________________ ___ The next generation of Windows Live is he> re http://www.window slive.co.uk/get-live
------------------------------
Date: F r> i, 04 Jul 2008 11:19:24 +0100 From: Hilary Stone <hilary.stone@blu eyonder> .co.uk> To: Classicrendezvous <Classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>
Subject:> [CR] Ebay Outing
Message-ID: <486DF92C.5030202@blueyonde
r.co.uk>
Conte> nt-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format
=flowed
MIME-Version: > 1.0
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
P
recedence: list
Message: 7
> This week its a bit of a British
frame bonanza ... with some really
gorg> eous fancy lugged frames from
Hobbs, Gillott and Ellis Briggs. The
other> British frames are real
ly rather interesting too - including a
rare lar> ge 24inin track fram
e from Carpenter, a really early Condor (a
bit more > of the history
of who made Condor frames came to light with
this frame -> Vic Braysh
er built many, maybe all Condor frames in the
period 1952-55)> , a
really stunning Roy Thame Campionissiomo TT frame and
an unusual Car>
lton Pro. The latter frame has shot-in seatstays but
without the Vict
or > seat lug - I have seen this on a Carlton or two
before but dating
this i> s difficult as this frame lacks a number - it
came from an ex
-England te> am mechanic who had bought it from one of his
sources...
There ar> e some great parts too - a couple of the early Cinelli 1A
stems with nut> clamp fastening - one is not anodized making it from t he middle 60s. An> d there are a couple of really nice NOS stems, a Cinelli 1R and a panto'> d 3TTT. There's a couple of very good pairs o f Stronglight 49D cranks - > one pair from the 50s and one from the 60 s... And there's a Campy seatpo> st I have never seen before - a first pattern twin-bolt SR in the short > length! Amongst the Brit par ts there are pairs of 26in and 27inDunlo> p stainless steel rims, a stunning Constrictor Boa light bracket, a very> good pair of Brampto n B8 pedals, a very useable Brooks B17 Swallow s> addle, Lauterwas ser bars and pre-WWII Airlite large flange hubs. The > continental goo dies include a Simplex 543 gear, NOS Universal Extra brak> e callipe rs, Titan stems and bars, Cinelli track stem and Mafac Racer br> a kes.
The auctions finish on Sunday as usual and all are best fo> und using my ebay identity hilarystone or go to:
=0 Ahttp://search.eb> ay.com/_W0QQsassZhilarystoneQQfrppZ50QQfsopZ32QQfsooZ2QQ rdZ0
Hilary St> one, Bristol, England
CAMP AGNOLO TIPO HUBS w WEINMANN ALESA > 27in RIMS
ROY THAME CAMPIONISS
IMO FRAME c1978 23.5in Very Beautiful
>
CARLTON PRO 1960s 23ยท25i
n
ELLIS BRIGGS INTERNATIONAL 24in c1953 B> eautiful Lugs
HOBBS SUPERBE 24in 1946 Fancy ornate lugs Orig finish
>
GILLOTT FL
EUR DE LYS 1959 22in Gorgeous fancy lugs
CONDOR ROAD FRAM> E 1953 23in lovely lugs
CARPENTER TRACK FRAME c1953 24in
DUNLOP S> TAINLESS 32/40H 26in RIMS 1940s/50s
DUNLOP STAINLESS 32/40H 27i n RIMS > 1940s/50s
DUNLOP HOTTA CARBON-FIBRE FORKS for 700C wheel
EDDY> MERCKX FORKS Early 1980s
VELROMA 11cm STEM 1960s Badged NOS
CINE> LLI STEEL 11cm TRACK STEM Rechromed
3TTT
PANTOGRAPHED STEM 10cm NOS
>
CINELLI 1A 11.5cm STEM 1960s/70s Sta
ndard nut clamp
CINELLI 1A 12cm> STEM 1960s not anodized =0 ATITAN 11cm STEM 1950s/60s
TITAN 6.5c> m STEM 1950s/60s
C INELLI 1R 11.5cm STEM 1980s NOS NIP
STRONGLIGHT> 49D CRANKSET 170m m 1950s
STRONGLIGHT 49D CRANKSET 165mm 1960s
TA> CRANKSET 172.5mm Practically unused
COLORAL FEEDING BOTTLE w handle b> ar cage rare
CAMPAGNOLO TRACK 68-P-120 BOTTOM BRACKET AXLE NOS
CA> MPAGNOLO NUOVO RECORD SEATPOST 26.4mm No limit mark
CAMPA GNOLO 13-18T > FREEWHEEL Almost unused
CAMPAGNOLO C-RECORD SEATPOS T 27.2mm seatpin c1> 986
CAMPAGNOLO SUPER RECORD 2-BOLT SEATPOST 2 7mm NOS
CAMPAGNOLO C> HORUS ERGOPOWER LEVERS 8-SPEED 1996 NOS
1930s LEATHER TOESTRAPS NOS Ra> re & Beautiful
AIRLITE LARGE FLANGE DOUBLE FIXED HUBS PRE-WAR Rare!!>
HARDEN LARGE FLANGE FIXE D HUBS Track Pista
BSA REAR WHEEL WINGNU> TS 1930s NOS
BL
UMFIELD SMALL DOUBLE FIXED REAR HUB 40H 1940s/50s
> BRAMPTON B8 PE
DALS 1940s/50s
BROOKS B17 SWALLOW SADDLE
BROOKS B17> STAN DARD SADDLE 1970s/80s
BROOKS PROFESSIONAL SADDLE 1970s
CA MPA> GNOLO BULLET TWIST GRIP MTB SHIFTERS 8-spd c1992
CAMPAGNOLO P ISTA 32H > REAR HUB 1960s
CINELLI PISTA (TRACK) BARS 1980s 0ATITAN MAES BARS 3> 8cm 1950s/60s
LAUTERWASSER SHALLOW BARS 1930s
CONSTRICTOR BOA LIG> HT BRACKET 1930s/50s Stunning
CYCLO BENELUX FRONT ROD OPERATED GEAR 19> 50s NOS
HETCHINS SWEATSHIRT X L Almost unused
HURET LOUISON BOBET > DOUBLE GEAR LEVER
K ARRIMOR SADDLEBAG 1950s/60s
UNIVERSAL EXTRA BR> AKE CALLIPERS NOS
TA 39T 3/32in CYCLOTOURIST OUTER CHAINRING
STUR> MEY ARC HER S5/2 ALLOY SHELL 5-SPD HUB GEAR 36H NOS
STURMEY ARCHER 4-SP> D TRIGGER 1940s/50s
SIMPLEX 543 REAR GEAR 1950s
MAFAC RACE R DURAL> FORGE BRAKESET 1950s/60s
LYOTARD STEEL RAT TRAP PEDALS 19 50s
LYO> TARD FAUCHEAX PEDALS
--------------------------- ---
Date: Fri, 04> Jul 2008 07:01:33 -0400 From: Harvey Sach s <hmsachs@verizon.net> To: C> lassic Rendezvous <classicrendezvous@bik elist.org>, ternst1@cox.net> Subject: [CR]1*3/16" Roller chain master links Message-ID: <486E030D.6> 050709@verizon.net> Content-T ype: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format> =flowed MIME-Version : 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedenc> e: list Reply- To: hsachs@alumni.rice.edu Message: 8
Thanks, Ted.> I t hink I have a few new master links for 1*3/16 ROLLER chain, that my > 0Amother-in-law found somewhere and gave me. They look strange, because >
they are very short, just spanning the space between the close-toge ther > rollers. Those who are desperate may contact me.
thank s harvey s> achs mcLean va 22101
Class time. Are we ta lking 1" roller or block> chain? Diamond roller chains had the master m ale half of the link with > the rivets that came through the link and p rotruded out the other side ma> ybe 3/32". These two pegs not rivets ha d a cutout around the peg and the > clip on plate was drilled so that t he holes fit into the slot with the pr> oper dimension. To install, o ne bends the chain so that the pegs get clos> er and the plate falls ov er and locks into the slot. The beveled edge i> s up or out, the shar p edge goes down or in as it were, and that sharp ed> ge lets the pla te pop off easier when the two pegs are "squeezed/ compres> sed closer.
The older Diamond chains had a "hear it snap" stamped into th> e locki ng plate. This was probably a Diamond copyright. If your link > has one side in the chain, and the other not, take a narrow plier and squ> eeze the exposed peg and the roller where the other peg is in
the chain, > and you should be able to get enuf pressure on the pegs to
compress them > close enuf so that the plate can be removed. Then you can turn the plate > around and do it correctly when you put the ch ain on the bike. If you i> ndeed do have a "block" chain, then I susp ect it's not a correct master.> I've not seen a snap link on a blo ck chain that was later than the '10's> maybe '20's. The English a nd others often used a nut and screw, where > the master plate was th readed on one side. The little screw was installed> and the nut screwe d on and then tapped with a hammer to keep the nut > from coming off an d the chain from coming apart. The tightness of the mas> ter link could be adjusted for play using the screw and nut. Many block> chain ma kers used a "C" clip that went into the slotted pegs. The loo> se plate was there to keep the pegs in the proper distance, the "C" clip=0 A> acted as a keeper when pushed into position.I think Diamond was the only > one that used the little spring and plate over the two pegs.0AOne leg> of the spring which looks like a skinny wire "C" clip in that it
also fi> ts into the slot/channel in the pegs.
One leg went under
the other like c> rossed legs and the keeper spring outer
leg had a lit
tle arc in it where > it went over the inner leg as it crossed
over and
locked into the channel> .
You can interchange some of the block maste
rs if the pegs/rivets are th> e
same size and the pegs are the same len
gth to fit properly.
Some chai> ns have different diameter pegs/rivets/
studs so they are either
too
lo> ose or too big and won't go into
the rivet hole in the block.
If you have> a genuine block chain and a r
oller master, then it won't work.
The two t> ypes aren't interchangea
ble because the link sizes are reversed on
block > and roller chains ev
en tho they are both 1x3/16" and will fit the
same>
chainrings an
d cogs.
Now it's your turn to see what you have and hopef> ully this wi
ll help you
make it happy so you can ride it.
Happy 4th!
> Ted
Ernst
Palos Verdes Estates
CA USA
----- Original Message ----->
From: "Stephen James" <sj52@hotmail.com> To: <shop@cyclart.com> ; <clas> sicrendezvous@bikelist.org> Sent: Thursday, July 03, 200 8 5:38 PM Subje> ct: RE: [CR]Question about one-inch pitch block chain
-------------------> -----------
Date: Fri, 04 Jul 2008 07: 32:42 -0400 From: Harvey Sachs> <hmsachs@verizon.net> To: Classic R endezvous <classicrendezvous@bikelist> .org>, Edward.H.Albert@hofstr a.edu, "weigle >> Peter Weigle" <j> pweigle@sbcglobal.net> Subje ct: Re: [CR]Cirque bike classification: "orig> inal" v. "restored" Mess age-ID: <486E0A5A.90807@verizon.net> Content-Ty> pe: text/plain; char set=windows-1252; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0> Content-T ransfer-Encoding: 8BIT Precedence: list Reply-To: hsachs@al> umni.r ice.edu Message: 9
Well, I guess that I did set off a bit of a> firestorm, with many on- and off-list responses, all of them t houghtful> . I liked Eddie Albert's (below) from the perspective of a judge and exp> erienced collector. Clearly, we all have different pe rspectives, and the> discussion has helped me clarify my values. May be I can summarize wher> e it has gotten me, recognizing that others have different priorities.>
1) I didn't start collecting. I just
didn't sell a few bikes that got>
older, and discovered that I had
a small collection of nice bikes. Bike> s
that I ride for pleasure,
and for the memories they hold. We've had at>
least three of our bikes
for more than 30 years.
2) First time at Cir> que, many decades ago
(?), I was disappointed that
the judges didn't sha> re my high opini
on of my "perfect" '65 Paramount
(which isn't). Moral: > Peter Weigle
is right: call out the runners up;
make more people happy.>
3)
Since then, I guess I've gotten more comfortable in my own skin. My > 0Abikes are going to be ridden, and they are going to get scuffed. and I'
m>
not good about cleaning the dust and mud off them. I figure that th
e >
major reason to show them is that some folks will be interested,
and
> they will see through the dust. I've ridden my '38 Paramount on
a
centu> ry and lots of other rides, and it has paint chips in seve
ral
places. So> be it; I'm gonna ride with a brake when I ride on th
e road.
4) So, I'll > leave the conversation about how to do criteria
and judging
to my great > friends who enjoy this, and maybe figure
a way to identify
my scarred bi> kes with purple hearts. :-)
5) Bu
t, a parting shot: I do think that "Orig> inal" or "Unrestored"
crit
eria should apply only to the frameset, not th> e piece-parts hung on 0Ait. Ain't no good way to tell about the parts, so > let''s not abuse
ourselves. FWIW, I also agree with the spirit of Edwar> d's suggesti on about not showing a bike that is a mish-mash if you expec> t it to be seen as a vintage. But, I'm not opposed to new or old framese> ts with modern parts. Just not for representing as vintage.
tha nks,> everyone, for the good vibes and great thoughts.
harvey sachs mcLea> n va, estados unidos de america
++++++++++ ++++++++++++++ Ed Alber> t wrote: Harvey,
Your post rais es questions that go to the very hear> t of the issue of judging, que stions that we faced at this years Cirque. > (I hope I am not in for a barrage of hate mail now). And, questions tha> t have come up after e very Cirque at least as long as I have been involve> d. 1. In the first place your post correctly points to a problematic iss> ue but only one of many and cries out for our \u201chobby\u201d to establish mo> re formal r ules for judging or to give up the judging entirely. My own> feelings on this matter are on record and I will not bore you all with> them ag ain 2. Re the specifics of the post concerning restored vs. un> restore d. In the main I believe the spirit of Peter\u2019s suggestion is co> rrec t. The Judges this year were sometimes at a loss to decide if a bike > was in its original condition or was a repaint. In a few cases we got i t> wrong. Insofar as time was short and there was nobody around to ask , we> made our best judgment call. In my own view when one talks abou t \u201cunr> estored\u201d the central criteria is paint and, secondarily , parts. Does t> he bike, in the main, retain the original finish put on the bike at the t> ime it was made and are the parts ones that could, conceivably, have been> on the bike when the bike was assemb led. 3. If the bike is deemed unr> estored and the parts are \u201crelativ ely\u201d correct for the date given, th> en judging can proceed on othe r criteria. Does, for example, a bike ident> ified as say 1975 whic h has a rear Campag derailleur dated Pat. 74 or 75 > have its original derailleur or a replacemen t (for whatever reason)\u2026wh> o can tell? We must assume if not its originality at least its correctne> ss. But, on the other hand, if a bike dated, say 1962, has a Nuovo Recor> d Derailleur and not a \u201cRecord\u201d model then, IMHO that is a point agai> nst it. 4. We viewed many beautiful unrestored bikes this year th at cont> ained a mishmash of parts that were clearly on the bike becaus e it was, f> irst and foremost, a rider and these parts worked. I s ee no problem in t> hat except that if one enters a bike to be judged t han one must realize t> hat some sort of criteria must be applied and i nappropriate parts is an o> bvious one and, again IMHO, one that me rits deductions when comparing to > others in the class that contain if not original, at least period appropr> iate parts. If one does not care at least to remove the modern oversize> waterbottle from the cage than I have to ask why bother to enter the bik> e for judging in the fi rst place. Display the bike\u2026absolutely, but to > expect to be consi dered seriously for an award, absolutely not. 5. Pet> er\u2019s Post (pu n intended) also made reference to the usefulness of inc> luding runne rs up in each category as a way of encouraging more participa> nts and giving them incentive for next time. I am in full agreement with> that suggestion.
I am also in favor of retaining a revamped, more obj
> ective, judging
process. Judging improves the breed while the \u201cI
\u2019m o> k, your ok\u201d
perspective leads to mediocrity. Let the chips
fall.
> Edward Albert
Chappaqua, New York, U.S.A.
----
-------------------------> -
Date: Fri, 04 Jul 2008 07:39:34 -04 00 From: Harvey Sachs <hmsachs@> verizon.net> To: Classic Rendezvou s <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org> Su> bject: Re: [CR]Semi-annual stuck seatpost thread Message-ID: <486E0BF6.60> 80408@verizon.net> Conte nt-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format> =flowed MIME-Ver sion: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedenc> e: list Re ply-To: hsachs@alumni.rice.edu Message: 10
Maybe I can a> dd a poignant note to Dale's precautionary message. There's an old joke:>
Q: why are spoke wrenches sold so cheaply by bike shops? A: Becaus e > the unskilled can do so much damage with them, so quickly.
I t was a sa> d day for me when I was asked to look at a nice British fr ameset with th> e seat tube cut about all the way through by a hacksaw =0 Ablade, in a clums> y effort to remove a stuck post. Nice long slit that
didn't go quite thr> ough the wall, and was mostly in the area reinf orced by the lug. But, > not a pretty sight.
harvey sachs
mcLean va where it is the fourth > of July, and I'm grateful to live in a country that accepted my parents > as refugees long ago. A c ountry where we've always had high aspirations,> even when we fall f ar short of them, hurting ourselves and others. ++> ++++++++++++ ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Chris wrote:
<> <.. .am finally considering simply cutting the post off then cutting it i> nternally in two places, the length of the post, to remove it in piece s. >>>
?
This sounds good and can work... but in actual ity it is a lo> t more difficult than it sounds, is messy in extreme and is sooo much wo> rk. See my earlier post.
Dale Brown=0 Acycles de ORO Bike Shop 141> 0 Mill Street Greensboro, North Car olina 27408 USA 336-274-5959 -----> -------------------------
Date: Fri, 4 Jul 2008 08:57:53 -0400 From:> devotion finesse <de votion_finesse@hotmail.com> To: CR discussion list <> classicrendezvous @bikelist.org> Subject: [CR]Is THIS why I haven't seen m> any Columbus seatposts? Message-ID: <BLU113-W436C6C956C4A5AA0A3B1D0F59B0@> phx.gbl>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version:> 1.0 Precedence: list Message: 11
I few weeks ago, a buddy gave> me a seatpost with the Columbus dove stampe d on either si de. It has a > 1mm wide red band painted around it near the to p and a black clamping me> chanism with a single bolt attachment. There is a se cond small "set pin"> on the front of the clamp, accessible from the un
derside, which allows > you to adjust the saddle angle. There were 4
" sti
ffening rifles" along> the inside of the post as well, a la SL
X.
Kind of neat looking, I though> t. But the single bolt clamp was o
dd, as
the seat would basically pivot > on the bolt until I REALLY cr
anked on it to
tighten it down. Perfect for> my townie/beater/fixed-gea
r Falcon-Merckx.
That is, until today.
I am > riding along the su
per-smooth NYC streets, when I suddenly happen up
on o> ne of those r
are "pot holes" and hear POP! I stand up, off the saddl
e, > only t
o realize that there is something hitting the back of my leg and
ru> bb
ing on my wheel. That would be the Concor saddle I had attached to th
>
e seat stays with a section of old chain wrapped in inner tube. The post h
a>
d sheared in half right where it bends into the clamping area, ap
parentl> y
along a crack that must have started at the set-pin hole.
I popped > into a local shop and upon removing the broken post from th e frame , I no> ticed another oddity. The pillar/shaft itself had a f airly severe bend,> clearly visible to the naked eye. The area above the seat lug was cock> ed back a good couple of degrees. This mu st have been happening gradual> ly, as I noticed that the nose of th
e saddle seemed high a week or so ag> o and I had to make an adjustment wit h the set pin. It seems to me tha> t these two flaws were complete ly unrelated. Anybody els e have similar > issues with the quality of C olumbus seatposts? Is this why they are rel> atively uncommon?
Matthew Bowne Scratching my head in... Brooklyn> , New York
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Dat e: Fri,> 4 Jul 2008 9:40:14 -0500 From: <jeff-arg@bizwi.rr.com> T o: <classicren> dezvous@bikelist.org> Subject: [CR]Early High-End Trek
Message-ID: <6gv> fio$628c9g@rrcs-agw-01b.hrndva.rr.com> Content-T ype: text/plain; charset> =iso-8859-1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content -Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Prece> dence: list Message: 12
I
picked up an ealier (approximately 1981) l> ugged steel Trek bike. I don't
know much about them. The bike is white wi> th blue decal panels and blue h
ead tube, gold Trek head badge. It has a sl> oping crown fork and Cinelli
bottom bracket shell. Strangely, the drop out> s are Shimano, with the
rear being vertical dropouts without adjusters.
>
The bike came w
ith a limited Super Record gruppo (Nuovo BB and Super Leg> gera pedals but
the rest Super Record), Cinelli 1R Stem and old-logo Giro D> Italia bars.
I purchased the bike from the original owner.
I bought > it for t he components and plan on selling the frameset, which is in mint co> ndit ion.
Is it wrong to break this bike up? Do these have any colle> ctability?
Jeff Pyzyk Milwaukee, WI
--------------- ------------> ---
Date: Fri, 04 Jul 2008 11:03:18 -0400
From
: John Betmanis <johnb> @oxford.net>
To: <classicrendezvous@bikelist.or
g>
Subject: Re: [CR]repl> y to stuck seatpost discussion
Message-ID
: <3.0.6.32.20080704110318.0144a> 8f8@mailhost.oxford.net>
In-Reply-To:
<BAY102-W2382ABB2ABF6D66E27E1B9B298> 0@phx.gbl>
References: <MONKEYFOO
DeCs6CGFvY0000200e@monkeyfood.nt.phred.o> rg>
<MONKEYFOODeCs6CGFvY00002
00e@monkeyfood.nt.phred.org>
Content-Type:> text/plain; charset="us
-ascii"
MIME-Version: 1.0
Precedence: list
> Message: 13
At 09:18 AM 03/07/2008 -0500, Manfred Hegwer wrote:
>
> >Hea
ting the aluminum seat post may very well work but don't heat it to the>
>point of trying to melt it. You can use a torch like the one a plumbe
> r wou
>ld use to sweat copper pipe. Heat the exposed aluminum post lo
ng > enough to
> allow it to conduct the heat down into the seat tube.
The di> fferent metal
>s have different rates of thermal expansion. Thi
s movemen> t will often brea
>k the bond between the two metals. I rece
ntly used th> is method to remove a
> pedal stuck in a crank arm.
In the case of t> he pedal in the crank arm, you (usually) have stee l pedal spindle in an a> luminum alloy crank, so heat will loosen the bond due to the higher coeff> icient of expansion of the aluminum. Wit h the seatpost you have the oppos> ite. However, heat could still hel p break the bond due to the difference > in expansion crushing any corr osion products in the interface. Repeated h> eating and cooling is alwa ys good.
John Betmanis Woodstock, Ontario> Canada - -----------------------------
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