Doug Van Cleve wrote:
I think there is more than one version of the Competition, but I am wondering about the ones that look just like 2000s and about 2000s. Would they have been in use in the early to mid-70s? Perhaps a better question, would they fit it/make sense with a Stronglight 93, Simplex Super LJ and Retrofrictions (the older sun style) and Normandy Luxe Competitions? I have a Bertin that I think is from the early to mid-70s and was going to use Racers, but now I have both Competitions and 2000s and wonder about using them instead. Thanks :^)
------------------------------ I've been wondering about this too, and hope someone with good seventies reference materials can help. The Competition referred to here would be the second version, with assymetrical trapezoid-shaped badging. It woul d be great to know how early this was available. I would think there'd b e some advertising and / or reviews in the magazines, but I don't have a ny from that era (just a few older ones) in which to search. It occurs to me we could all chip in and get Norris a second computer to keep at his digs in France! But there are others with long memories on this list...and deep quantities of reference material. I'll offer what I can here, and hope for more: Doug, the other specs on your components sound like 1975 to me, and fine . I believe the early version retrofrictions and Super LJ derailleurs ap pear right about there time-wise--pretty exactly. I truly believe the la tter-day Mafac Competitions were in play by then, too--but I would love to know if they arrived just a bit sooner. The Comps make sense to me wi th the rest of the build as long as it is a relatively low-clearance fra me; they are rather short-reach, much shorter than the Racer--and the ea rlier, first generation (engraved) Competitions more-or-less based on th em. At any rate, the pair I have are shortish--though I can't quote the reach at this moment. I would say the reach is comparable to "normal rea ch" Campagnolo--and obviously aimed at that market, if not exactly succe eding in it. To me, they definitely mark an era of transition, but how e arly did that era of transition begin? It would be interesting if these brakes were out in the early '70s. They would seem to be a response to the success of Campagnolo brakes wit h their high standards of finish--and the trend toward a closer tire / f rame fit at the same time. But the question would be, how quickly did th ey bring this response to market. I recall peering at the photos of Bern ard Thevenet.... The Normandy hubs you mention (Luxe Competition) were definitely well es tablished by the period in question. There are two variations in the lab el affixed to the barrel of the hub--red or gold foil, IIRC. I think the y were used concurrently. Would introduction date not in fact be during the '60s? Even the early '60s? I believe they go pretty far back, well b efore the mid-seventies moment you invoke.
Note to self: must finally buy some of Chuck Schmidt's catalog reprints!
In fact, if he is reading this, let me say--you're not forgotten here.
Which reminds me--I didn't check the archives! But we can stand to repea
t ourselves occasionally...and there are still areas that haven't been p
roperly touched upon.
I look forward to hearing what others have to say in relation to Doug's
queries, as I am certainly an eager tyro (not to be confused with tyrant
) in this field. It is one thing to use a certain component, and another
to have a deep understanding of the material culture behind and surroun
ding it.
Doug, if I turn up anything to cite as a reference I'll be sure to pass
it along.
Tom Ward
Brooklyn, NY -- USA