[CR]RE: frozen seat post

(Example: Production Builders:Peugeot:PY-10)

From: Dan Rogers <drogers@modernmind.com>
To: "classicrendezvous@bikelist.org" <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>
Date: Thu, 7 Aug 2008 16:56:27 -0400
Thread-Topic: frozen seat post
Thread-Index: Acj4zMA+/pGeFPavRrKIyzqmH/A7sQAAfArw
References: <MONKEYFOODRaGO8NsoS00002e28@monkeyfood.nt.phred.org>
In-Reply-To:
Accept-Language: en-US
acceptlanguage: en-US
Subject: [CR]RE: frozen seat post

So I missed the very first posting, and I never had one get to the alloy-ch anges-the-metal stage, but have had lots of really stuck ones - here are a couple of suggestions for those extreme situation - in no particular order - in any case do as suggested - obviously remove the bolt and carefully pry the lug apart a bit: option 1) remove the crank and BB, turn the bike upsi de down and put MIRACLE OIL brand penetrating oil "down" the now-upside-dow n seat tube so that it settles against the bottom of the seat post - this s tuff really works and is an old trick of the automotive restoration busines s; or option 2) if you do not care about the post, cut it off right under t he bolt carriage (alloy cuts with a hacksaw and allows you take-out some of your frustration at the same time =)), insert a piece of rubber or plast ic down into the post to create a place for the oil to pool - some will ine vitably drip down onto the BB below, but should be no big deal - you will a lso have a flat edge on the top of the now cut post to lightly tap the now flat edge to loosen it. Let these both soak as long as patience will allow! Good luck! DAN

Dan Rogers Really Big Blueberries on... Bainbridge Island, WA

-----Original Message----- From: classicrendezvous-bounces@bikelist.org [mailto:classicrendezvous-boun ces@bikelist.org] On Behalf Of classicrendezvous-request@bikelist.org Sent: Thursday, August 07, 2008 1:29 PM To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org Subject: Classicrendezvous Digest, Vol 68, Issue 24

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CR

Today's Topics:

1. Re: Frozen seat post (Julie Cleveland) 2. Re: TA Pro 5 Vis on Fixed Wheel? (Wesley Gadd) 3. Single/fixie front cranks/rings (Anthony King) (Jon Spangler) 4. Re: 700c clinchers 5. Re: Re: Frozen seat post (Julie Cleveland) 6. Re: help me explain this (Wesley Gadd) 7. Re: New Member Intro and some restoration Q's (Jerome & Elizabeth Moos) 8. Re: Re: Frozen seat post 9. Re: Re: Frozen seat post (Mike Schmidt) 10. Re: TA Pro 5 Vis on Fixed Wheel? (Fred Rednor)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 07 Aug 2008 15:17:41 -0400 From: Julie Cleveland <juliecleveland@mac.com> To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org Cc: david.r.stacey@gsk.com Subject: [CR]Re: Frozen seat post Message-ID: <45F38BE8-BD62-4F92-B4BE-C94DF1A0809C@mac.com> In-Reply-To: <OFA9217131.0B3C6EE4-ON8025749E.0059B5FE-8025749E.005BDB84@gsk .com> References: <OFA9217131.0B3C6EE4-ON8025749E.0059B5FE-8025749E.005BDB84@gsk. com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Precedence: list Message: 1

Dear David: re seat post It's alloy, according to the specs I found online for this bike.

Does that mean I am stuck with a bike in which I can't lower the seat? That stinks! (I didn't of course think to ask these questions, stuff that seemed pretty obvious, when corresponding with the guy I bought the bike from on ebay).

I also don't have any of these chemicals, or a workshop, i'm just a pianist with a bike she wants to ride!

Thinking after getting all these replies maybe I gotta not "do it myself" and bring it back to the shop.

is this list for bike shop owners? I don't have any of the stuff people are mentioning, I'm just a humble, know-nothing newbie OTS rider, hope that's ok.

--Julie On Aug 7, 2008, at 12:43 PM, david.r.stacey@gsk.com wrote:
>
>
> Dear Julie,
>
> Oh dear. This is a problem that often kills an old bike. Have a
> look on Sheldon Browns website for full details, but basically If
> you have a steel seat post, keep up the WD40 remove the seat bolt
> completely, use a screwdriver to gently open the frame and get a
> gorilla to twist the seat tube free.
>
> If however it is an alloy seat post, then the thermite reation has
> occured and the aluminium has reacted and fused together with the
> steel of the frame. It can be cut out, carefully, rolled up and
> pulled out, though I have never found this works. I have heard of
> someone using a threaded bolt as a puller braced against the frame
> and winding the seat tube out, this is gentler.
>
> The last straw is to use 5M sodium hydroxide solution (caustic
> soda). This will dissolve the aluminium alloy, but not the steel.
> It also, if you are sloppy strips the paint off your frame and
> dissolves skin and eyes (and dissolve rims and cranksets), but if
> you are careful (or a chemist like me) it works where all else has
> failed. You have to plug the base of the seat tube with clay or blu
> tack and fill with sodium hydroxide solution 40g/200ml leave it
> 24hours, flush it out with water and repeat until the metal is
> paper thin and can be removed.
>
> All this is quite extreme and I would ask around for some help with
> this if you are not familiar with using chemicals. Please be
> careful and remember, if you want to put the tube down and it is a
> plain tube type, ask an engineer to cut it shorter and reshape the
> top (I've done that the other way round for a longer tube). A good
> engineer can also drill/ream out an old seat post, but he'd have to
> be a good one.
>
> Good luck and be careful!
>
> Regards
> David Stacey
> County Durham, UK
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------
> This e-mail was sent by GlaxoSmithKline Services Unlimited
> (registered in England and Wales No. 1047315), which is a
> member of the GlaxoSmithKline group of companies. The
> registered address of GlaxoSmithKline Services Unlimited
> is 980 Great West Road, Brentford, Middlesex TW8 9GS.
> -----------------------------------------------------------
>

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 7 Aug 2008 12:19:49 -0700 (PDT) From: Wesley Gadd <wesleygadd@sbcglobal.net> To: Jerome & Elizabeth Moos <jerrymoos@sbcglobal.net>, Longleaf Bicycles <longleafbicycles@gmail.com>, classicrendezvous@bikelist.org Subject: Re: [CR]TA Pro 5 Vis on Fixed Wheel? Message-ID: <435939.54954.qm@web83003.mail.mud.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <890199.76420.qm@web82205.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: list Message: 2

I've been using this set for fixed gear for years. I have a range of inch p itch rings (21, 22 and 24 teeth) as well as a 50 tooth 3/32 single ring. Th e inch pitch rings are beefy as hell, but I really don't notice any flex wi th the much thinner single 3/32 ring. For me, bothersome flex manifests its elf as the chain rubbing on the front derailleur, a moot point in this case . There were indeed track adapteurs for both 3 and 5 pin cranks. I always t hought a 3 pin adapteur on a steel Campy Gran Sport crank would be a great fixed setup!

Best regards, Wes Gadd Unionville,CT

Jerome & Elizabeth Moos <jerrymoos@sbcglobal.net> wrote: TA made an absolutely bewildering variety of rings and adapters to fit th ose arms. It is true that some believe that, even for road use, the TA cran ks has too much flex due to the small BCD of the outer ring. I don't really think the second ring does anything the stiffen things, as the flexing is going to be between the outside of the outer ring and its attachment to the crank arm. A track ring made for 1/8 inch chain is going to be thicker and stiffer than a road ring, but may still flex more than some would like.

However, TA made a number of different "adapters" which consisted of spider s which bolted to the arm in place of an outside chainring. These were much thicker and stiffer than an outer ring bolted direct to the arm. The chain rings themselves then had a much larger BCD and bolted to the adapter. Mayb e the best known adapter is the Criterium adapter for 151 or 152 BCD Criter ium rings. These were widely used In The Day by road racers and time triali sts, and in fact I have a book published in the 70's with a photos of the g reat Beryl Burton using a TA Criterium adapter and rings on a Jacques Anque til frame. It might be that the Criterium rings were available for 1/8 inch track chain and could be used with fixed gear, although of course shorter bolts would be required for attachment to the adapter. One would think the shorter bolts were made, if nothing else for use with a single 3/32 ring fo r time trial, as single chainring setups were widely used for TT In The Day .

Or it may be that TA made an adapter specitically for track use.

Regards,

Jerry Moos Big Spring, Texas, USA

Longleaf Bicycles wrote: I'm looking for some cranks for a new fixed wheel project (modern frameset) and I'm not excited about current (non Record) single chainring crank offerings.

I have a spare set of TA Pro 5 crankarms, but have never used these on a fixed wheel bike. I am concerned that the lack of a second ring to stiffen the outer ring and the higher torque placed on the drivetrain of a fixed wheel bike makes the small BCD of the TA cranks unsuitable.

Is this a misplaced concern? Has anyone tried this? I don't care about a little flex and while it might be silly and an overestimation of my own power to think I'd bend a chainring the idea gave me enough pause that I thought I'd ask for some advice.

Anthony King Longleaf Bicycles 805 B North Fourth St.. Wilmington, North Carolina 28401 910.341.3049 p 910.341.3059 f longleafbicycles.com

_______________________________________________

_______________________________________________

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 7 Aug 2008 12:19:43 -0700 From: Jon Spangler <hudsonspangler@earthlink.net> To: Dale Brown <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org> Cc: Longleaf Bicycles <longleafbicycles@gmail.com> Subject: [CR]Single/fixie front cranks/rings (Anthony King) Message-ID: <E620CC50-BC86-4E98-8BEC-AA424550C0BF@earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain;charset=US-ASCII;delsp=yes;format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v753.1) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 3

Anthony,

Your TA cranks are not the right ones for the job, as Jerry noted. The solid-armed Campi-style cranks with a wider BCD will offer a much better platform for your uses, whether you use road or track rings on your bike.

Here's another possibility: I installed my 1970s Campi NR double cranks on my 1973 Peugeot UO-18 mixte (my around-town "truck" bike) with a single front ring on the inside and a single Campi cyclocross chain guard on the outside. (The 'cross guards come in pairs, and were used both inside and outside the single 'cross chainring in cyclocross.) It helps keep my pants a bit cleaner and looks much more elegant than a plastic or metal chainguard.

Here in flat Alameda, I get by just fine with a 6-speed (not original, but useful) SIS derailleur and freewheel (I know, I know...:-).

The 'cross chainguard looks good on the crankset, and could also work on your "fixie," depending on your aesthetic sensibilities. (Mine tend towards the flexible/heretical, as already well documented here. :-)

Jon Spangler

Alameda, California USA (on the USA's Left Coast, near Oakland) hudsonspangler@earthlink.net

Longleaf Bicycles <longleafbicycles@gmail.com> wrote: I'm looking for some cranks for a new fixed wheel project (modern frameset) and I'm not excited about current (non Record) single chainring crank offerings.

I have a spare set of TA Pro 5 crankarms, but have never used these on a fixed wheel bike. I am concerned that the lack of a second ring to stiffen the outer ring and the higher torque placed on the drivetrain of a fixed wheel bike makes the small BCD of the TA cranks unsuitable.

Is this a misplaced concern? Has anyone tried this? I don't care about a little flex and while it might be silly and an overestimation of my own power to think I'd bend a chainring the idea gave me enough pause that I thought I'd ask for some advice.

Anthony King Longleaf Bicycles 805 B North Fourth St.. Wilmington, North Carolina 28401 910.341.3049 p 910.341.3059 f longleafbicycles.com

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 07 Aug 2008 15:22:12 -0400 From: bjwebel@mac.com To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org Subject: [CR]Re: 700c clinchers Message-ID: <56044778220925062680410626538404842526-Webmail2@me.com> In-Reply-To: <MONKEYFOOD9wvTFUgqs00002dfd@monkeyfood.nt.phred.org> References: <MONKEYFOOD9wvTFUgqs00002dfd@monkeyfood.nt.phred.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 4

In response to Bob's last question, in my recollection 700c clinchers didn' t really start showing up in racing in the US until well after the CR timef rame. Some people may have been racing on them in the late 80s, but it was probably mid-90s before they got close to 50% in cat 1-2 races in the US.

In my opinion, the first clincher that I'd really have wanted to race on wa s the Michelin SuperComp HD, which dates from around 1990, I think.

Baird

_____________________________________ Baird Webel Washington DC

On Thursday, August 07, 2008, at 03:12PM, <classicrendezvous-request@bikeli st.org> wrote:
>------------------------------
>
>Date: Thu, 07 Aug 2008 09:15:55 -0700
>From: Bob Freitas <freitas1@pacbell.net>
>To: CLASSIC RENDEZVOUS <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>
>Subject: [CR]re:700c clinchers
>Message-ID: <489B1FBB.5000201@pacbell.net>
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>MIME-Version: 1.0
>Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>Precedence: list
>Message: 3
>
>
> 700c might have been a Euro standard but my 1970
>Hetchins VMIII was one of a pair that was delivered at the London shop,
>mine has 700c wheels but the other came with 27s. They were ordered by a
>Couple from the Bay Area who were going to do a European Tour. On
>arriving they found their bikes were not ready and ended up taking a
>couple of bikes off the shop floor. So the question might be was 27 a
>Standard in the UK?
> My 1947 Ceroni Cambio Corsa bike has single wall
>Ambrosio 700c Clinchers which look original.
> On a USA note 1960 Schwinn Varsity had 26'' wheels while
>Continental had 27's
> Quality Clincher rims did not show up until the
>early 70s with the first bike I saw out of the box with them was Follis
>bikes(Mavic) in maybe 1971.
> Tires were the real problem and the Michelin Elan
>(with folding bead ) showed up in maybe 1973 and the Schwinn Super
>sports (Thank You, Dave Staub!) maybe the year after.The Schwinn tires
>were available in both 700c and 27'' and featured different weights and
>diameters.
> What year did Clinchers really show up in the Cat 1/2
>races?
>
> BOB FREITAS
> blue skies today in MILL VALLEY, CA USA
>
> Who wishes he could find a bundle of those Schwinn
>tires ------------------------------

Date: Thu, 07 Aug 2008 15:26:06 -0400 From: Julie Cleveland <juliecleveland@mac.com> To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org Cc: loudeeter@aol.com Subject: Re: [CR]Re: Frozen seat post Message-ID: <91166E61-A302-487B-91FF-2853DAF3E0FD@mac.com> In-Reply-To: <1972188242-1218136836-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-172 926133-@bxe142.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> References: <OFA9217131.0B3C6EE4-ON8025749E.0059B5FE-8025749E.005BDB84@gsk. com> <45F38BE8-BD62-4F92-B4BE-C94DF1A0809C@mac.com> <1972188242-1218136836-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-172 926133-@bxe142.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Precedence: list Message: 5

thanks, lou. Does anyone here live near Delray Beach, FL? Thanks, Julie Cleveland Delray Beach, FL, USA

On Aug 7, 2008, at 3:20 PM, loudeeter@aol.com wrote:
> Ask the list if anyone lkives near you who might help. Lou
> Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Julie Cleveland <juliecleveland@mac.com>
>
> Date: Thu, 07 Aug 2008 15:17:41
> To: <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>
> Cc: <david.r.stacey@gsk.com>
> Subject: [CR]Re: Frozen seat post
>
>
> Dear David:
> re seat post
> It's alloy, according to the specs I found online for this bike.
>
> Does that mean I am stuck with a bike in which I can't lower the
> seat? That stinks! (I didn't of course think to ask these questions,
> stuff that seemed pretty obvious, when corresponding with the guy I
> bought the bike from on ebay).
>
> I also don't have any of these chemicals, or a workshop, i'm just a
> pianist with a bike she wants to ride!
>
> Thinking after getting all these replies maybe I gotta not "do it
> myself" and bring it back to the shop.
>
> is this list for bike shop owners? I don't have any of the stuff
> people are mentioning, I'm just a humble, know-nothing newbie OTS
> rider, hope that's ok.
>
> --Julie Cleveland Delray Beach, FL, USA
> On Aug 7, 2008, at 12:43 PM, david.r.stacey@gsk.com wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> Dear Julie,
>>
>> Oh dear. This is a problem that often kills an old bike. Have a
>> look on Sheldon Browns website for full details, but basically If
>> you have a steel seat post, keep up the WD40 remove the seat bolt
>> completely, use a screwdriver to gently open the frame and get a
>> gorilla to twist the seat tube free.
>>
>> If however it is an alloy seat post, then the thermite reation has
>> occured and the aluminium has reacted and fused together with the
>> steel of the frame. It can be cut out, carefully, rolled up and
>> pulled out, though I have never found this works. I have heard of
>> someone using a threaded bolt as a puller braced against the frame
>> and winding the seat tube out, this is gentler.
>>
>> The last straw is to use 5M sodium hydroxide solution (caustic
>> soda). This will dissolve the aluminium alloy, but not the steel.
>> It also, if you are sloppy strips the paint off your frame and
>> dissolves skin and eyes (and dissolve rims and cranksets), but if
>> you are careful (or a chemist like me) it works where all else has
>> failed. You have to plug the base of the seat tube with clay or blu
>> tack and fill with sodium hydroxide solution 40g/200ml leave it
>> 24hours, flush it out with water and repeat until the metal is
>> paper thin and can be removed.
>>
>> All this is quite extreme and I would ask around for some help with
>> this if you are not familiar with using chemicals. Please be
>> careful and remember, if you want to put the tube down and it is a
>> plain tube type, ask an engineer to cut it shorter and reshape the
>> top (I've done that the other way round for a longer tube). A good
>> engineer can also drill/ream out an old seat post, but he'd have to
>> be a good one.
>>
>> Good luck and be careful!
>>
>> Regards
>> David Stacey
>> County Durham, UK ------------------------------

Date: Thu, 7 Aug 2008 12:30:52 -0700 (PDT) From: Wesley Gadd <wesleygadd@sbcglobal.net> To: EPL <lowiemanuel@yahoo.ca>, "classicrendezvous@bikelist.org" <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org> Subject: Re: [CR]help me explain this Message-ID: <277122.30567.qm@web83002.mail.mud.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <761379.73909.qm@web50511.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: list Message: 6

Why not just space the hub the way you want it, and have him build the whee l as usual (rim centered on locknuts)? I built wheels like this untill Sach s freewheels became hard to come by. I'd remove the 12 tooth cog from a 7 s peed freewheel , making an (off topic) index compatible 6 speed set. Spaced at 130mm, there was very little dish, enabling me to use GEL280's or Ergal s with off topic modern shifting (Ergo).

Best regards, Wes Gadd Unionville,CT

EPL <lowiemanuel@yahoo.ca> wrote: I'm trying to get my LBS wheel builder to make me a rear wheel using a 6 speed axle hub (i.e. 126.5 mm) but dished to take a 5 speed freewheel.

He's having trouble understanding why I've asked him to move 6.5 mm of spac ers from the drive side to the non-drive side. He's used to dealing with 9/ 10 speed gizmos where there's no diff.

Any tips on how I can make a persuasive case to the benighted young fella?

Emanuel Lowi Montreal, Quebec

__________________________________________________________________ Yahoo! Canada Toolbar: Search from anywhere on the web, and bookmark your f avourite sites. Download it now at http://ca.toolbar.yahoo.com. _______________________________________________

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 7 Aug 2008 12:32:32 -0700 (PDT) From: Jerome & Elizabeth Moos <jerrymoos@sbcglobal.net> To: Bruce Audino <uomodiolmo@gmail.com>, classicrendezvous@bikelist.org Subject: Re: [CR]New Member Intro and some restoration Q's Message-ID: <711191.97473.qm@web82203.mail.mud.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <cb09e8f10808071032r4420ae25uafe5d71e765ba073@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: list Message: 7

Most CR members believe firmly in the value of keeping frames well waxed. I use a premium automotive paste wax, usually Mother's. Spray waxes or Lem on Pledge don't coat as well, but may sometimes be used over delicate decal s, etc, where you don't want to rub hard.

It won't help this time, but I now touch up almost exclusively with nail polish. It of course comes in every conceivable shade of red, and, thanks no doubt to teenage girls, in a surprising number of unexpected colors as w ell. Another benefit is that it dries fast and hard, and, when applying pa ste wax per above, won't rub off like enamel touchup can. Finally, nail po lish comes off readily with Acetone, AKA nail polish remover, with little o r no damage to the original paint, so if you don't get it right, you can do it again.

Simple Green can be dangerous, as it will corrode/stain alloy parts if yo u leave them in too long. For a while I used a lot of Citrus degreaser, bu t if you leave parts in it too long, it will deposit a gum that will usuall y require petroleum solvents to remove. So lately I've gone back to just o rdinary petroleum solvents, Laquer Thinner being one of the most effective. Petroleum solvents are usually fine on steel or alloy, but of course you want the keep them away from rubber or painted parts.

Nothing mysterious about SL pedals, serviced pretty much like any part wi th loose ball bearings. Personally, when overhauling parts like pedals, I throw away the old bearings, replace with highest quality bearings, grease with Phil Wood or Park grease and reassemble. A useful tool to have is a m etal ruler with bearing holes which allows you to measure the old bearings to assure that you use the right size replacements. Should be lots of manu als out there with exploded views of Campy SL pedals (which have pretty muc h the same parts as any other high quality traditional pedal) and basic ins tructions for servicing.

Regards,

Jerry Moos Big Spring, Texas, USA

Bruce Audino <uomodiolmo@gmail.com> wrote: Hi CR folks, Just wanted to introduce myself to the group. ...

Sent from Gmail for mobile

---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Bruce Audino Date: Thu, 7 Aug 2008 12:40:42 -0400 Subject: New Member Intro and some restoration Q's To: classicrendezvous-request@bikelist.org

Hi CR folks,

Just wanted to introduce myself to the group. My name is Bruce and I live in NYC and also in CT. I am pretty new to the vintage bicycle scene and probably one of the younger members of this group, so I will apologize in advance if I ask any stupid questions along the way. I currently have an '83 Olmo Professionista and just picked up a '78 blue De Rosa Professional that my lovely lady bought me as a gift for our engagement. Not a bad trade for a ring I must say. In any event, I had a couple of resto questions I thought I may throw out to the group if that's ok.

1. Is it recommended to use any type of wax/protectant/etc on the frame and chrome?

2. How would you go about removing touch up paint without damaging the original paint. (There's a hairline scratch that has more touch up than needed on it and I would like to re-do it).

3. For cleaning grimy old parts (calipers, cranks, rings, etc) I I usually use simple green then wash with clean water, dry, and re lubricate/grease. Is this the best method? Simichrome on chrome, nothing on anondized parts. How about cleaning the freewheel?

4. I have Campy SL road pedals that rotate pretty poorly and probably need to be serviced. Since I have not done this before, any resources that I may look into to learn how to do it properly?

Also, seperately:

The De Rosa has Fiamme tubulars. I was wondering if there is a period correct clincher that would be recommended? I plan on taking this bike on lengthy rides and clinchers are easier for dealing with flats.

Well that's about it. I hope I didn't over do it with questions or violate any CR rules. Let me know if so.

Thanks! Bruce

-- Sent from Gmail for mobile | mobile.google.com

-- Sent from Gmail for mobile | mobile.google.com _______________________________________________

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 07 Aug 2008 15:42:01 -0300 From: travis.harry@gmail.com To: <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org> Cc: Julie Cleveland <juliecleveland@mac.com> Subject: Re: [CR]Re: Frozen seat post Message-ID: <MONKEYFOODjkkL6Ltu200002e1f@monkeyfood.nt.phred.org> In-Reply-To: <45F38BE8-BD62-4F92-B4BE-C94DF1A0809C@mac.com> Precedence: list Message: 8

Thursday, August 07, 2008 - 03:33 PM

Your expression of despair this soon implies you have paid too much attention to reports of others' failure. There hasn't been enough time in research yet, or for a chemical or 2 to act to loosen the bond.

Harry Travis Washington, DC USA

stirred by: Julie Cleveland <juliecleveland@mac.com>'s message of: Thursday 07 Aug 08 at 03:17 PM, On: [CR]Re: Frozen seat post [echoed below, in part<=1] -oOo-
>Dear David:
>re seat post
>It's alloy, according to the specs I found online for this bike.
>Does that mean I am stuck with a bike in which I can't lower the
>seat? That stinks! (I didn't of course think to ask these questions,
>stuff that seemed pretty obvious, when corresponding with the guy I
>bought the bike from on ebay).
>I also don't have any of these chemicals, or a workshop, i'm just a
>pianist with a bike she wants to ride!
>Thinking after getting all these replies maybe I gotta not "do it
>myself" and bring it back to the shop.
>is this list for bike shop owners? I don't have any of the stuff
>people are mentioning, I'm just a humble, know-nothing newbie OTS
>rider, hope that's ok.
>--Julie
>On Aug 7, 2008, at 12:43 PM, david.r.stacey@gsk.com wrote:
>>
>>
>> Dear Julie,
>>
>> Oh dear. This is a problem that often kills an old bike. Have a
>> look on Sheldon Browns website for full details, but basically If
>> you have a steel seat post, keep up the WD40 remove the seat bolt
>> completely, use a screwdriver to gently open the frame and get a
>> gorilla to twist the seat tube free.
>>
>> If however it is an alloy seat post, then the thermite reation has
>> occured and the aluminium has reacted and fused together with the
>> steel of the frame. It can be cut out, carefully, rolled up and
>> pulled out, though I have never found this works. I have heard of
>> someone using a threaded bolt as a puller braced against the frame
>> and winding the seat tube out, this is gentler.
>>
>> The last straw is to use 5M sodium hydroxide solution (caustic
>> soda). This will dissolve the aluminium alloy, but not the steel.
>> It also, if you are sloppy strips the paint off your frame and
>> dissolves skin and eyes (and dissolve rims and cranksets), but if
>> you are careful (or a chemist like me) it works where all else has
>> failed. You have to plug the base of the seat tube with clay or blu
>> tack and fill with sodium hydroxide solution 40g/200ml leave it
>> 24hours, flush it out with water and repeat until the metal is
>> paper thin and can be removed.
>>
>> All this is quite extreme and I would ask around for some help with
>> this if you are not familiar with using chemicals. Please be
>> careful and remember, if you want to put the tube down and it is a
>> plain tube type, ask an engineer to cut it shorter and reshape the
>> top (I've done that the other way round for a longer tube). A good
>> engineer can also drill/ream out an old seat post, but he'd have to
>> be a good one.
>>
>> Good luck and be careful!
>> -- ----------------------------------------------------------- travis.dot.harry.trying.gmail.com DemostiX -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 07 Aug 2008 16:24:59 -0400 From: Mike Schmidt <mdschmidt56@verizon.net> To: Julie Cleveland <juliecleveland@mac.com> Cc: "classicrendezvous@bikelist.org" <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org> Cc: Lou Deeter <loudeeter@aol.com> Subject: Re: [CR]Re: Frozen seat post Message-ID: <F3B9AA67-4308-4290-AE6A-82BE738B8728@verizon.net> In-Reply-To: <91166E61-A302-487B-91FF-2853DAF3E0FD@mac.com> References: <OFA9217131.0B3C6EE4-ON8025749E.0059B5FE-8025749E.005BDB84@gsk. com> <45F38BE8-BD62-4F92-B4BE-C94DF1A0809C@mac.com> <1972188242-1218136836-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-172 926133-@bxe142.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> <91166E61-A302-487B-91FF-2853DAF3E0FD@mac.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed; delsp=yes MIME-Version: 1.0 (iPhone Mail 5B108) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 9

Youse Floridians should hold a CR ride in Del Ray, bring a can of Kroil and get Julie on the road. I volunteer Lou and Jonathan.

Mike Schmidt Stirling, New Jersey Sent from my iPhone

On Aug 7, 2008, at 3:26 PM, Julie Cleveland <juliecleveland@mac.com> wrote:
> thanks, lou.
> Does anyone here live near Delray Beach, FL?
> Thanks,
> Julie Cleveland
> Delray Beach, FL, USA
>
> On Aug 7, 2008, at 3:20 PM, loudeeter@aol.com wrote:
>
>> Ask the list if anyone lkives near you who might help. Lou
>> Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Julie Cleveland <juliecleveland@mac.com>
>>
>> Date: Thu, 07 Aug 2008 15:17:41
>> To: <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>
>> Cc: <david.r.stacey@gsk.com>
>> Subject: [CR]Re: Frozen seat post
>>
>>
>> Dear David:
>> re seat post
>> It's alloy, according to the specs I found online for this bike.
>>
>> Does that mean I am stuck with a bike in which I can't lower the
>> seat? That stinks! (I didn't of course think to ask these questions,
>> stuff that seemed pretty obvious, when corresponding with the guy I
>> bought the bike from on ebay).
>>
>> I also don't have any of these chemicals, or a workshop, i'm just a
>> pianist with a bike she wants to ride!
>>
>> Thinking after getting all these replies maybe I gotta not "do it
>> myself" and bring it back to the shop.
>>
>> is this list for bike shop owners? I don't have any of the stuff
>> people are mentioning, I'm just a humble, know-nothing newbie OTS
>> rider, hope that's ok.
>>
>> --Julie Cleveland
> Delray Beach, FL, USA
>> On Aug 7, 2008, at 12:43 PM, david.r.stacey@gsk.com wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Dear Julie,
>>>
>>> Oh dear. This is a problem that often kills an old bike. Have a
>>> look on Sheldon Browns website for full details, but basically If
>>> you have a steel seat post, keep up the WD40 remove the seat bolt
>>> completely, use a screwdriver to gently open the frame and get a
>>> gorilla to twist the seat tube free.
>>>
>>> If however it is an alloy seat post, then the thermite reation has
>>> occured and the aluminium has reacted and fused together with the
>>> steel of the frame. It can be cut out, carefully, rolled up and
>>> pulled out, though I have never found this works. I have heard of
>>> someone using a threaded bolt as a puller braced against the frame
>>> and winding the seat tube out, this is gentler.
>>>
>>> The last straw is to use 5M sodium hydroxide solution (caustic
>>> soda). This will dissolve the aluminium alloy, but not the steel.
>>> It also, if you are sloppy strips the paint off your frame and
>>> dissolves skin and eyes (and dissolve rims and cranksets), but if
>>> you are careful (or a chemist like me) it works where all else has
>>> failed. You have to plug the base of the seat tube with clay or blu
>>> tack and fill with sodium hydroxide solution 40g/200ml leave it
>>> 24hours, flush it out with water and repeat until the metal is
>>> paper thin and can be removed.
>>>
>>> All this is quite extreme and I would ask around for some help with
>>> this if you are not familiar with using chemicals. Please be
>>> careful and remember, if you want to put the tube down and it is a
>>> plain tube type, ask an engineer to cut it shorter and reshape the
>>> top (I've done that the other way round for a longer tube). A good
>>> engineer can also drill/ream out an old seat post, but he'd have to
>>> be a good one.
>>>
>>> Good luck and be careful!
>>>
>>> Regards
>>> David Stacey
>>> County Durham, UK
> _______________________________________________

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 7 Aug 2008 13:28:11 -0700 (PDT) From: Fred Rednor <fred_rednor@yahoo.com> To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org Subject: Re: [CR]TA Pro 5 Vis on Fixed Wheel? Message-ID: <799805.28805.qm@web30601.mail.mud.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <435939.54954.qm@web83003.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii MIME-Version: 1.0 Precedence: list Reply-To: fred_rednor@yahoo.com Message: 10

I use (and race) with a 3/32" 51mm ring on my LeJeune track bike. I use the Adapteur, though: <http://s183.photobucket.com/albums/x115/lat7575/Cirque%20Bikes/?action=v iew&current=Cirque_res173.jpg>

Having said that, I'm certain that if the chain line were straight (say wit hin 1 or 2 millimeters of being perfect) it would make no difference asto w hether or not you used an "ordinary" ring or the Adapteur; or whether you w ere using 3/32" or 1/8" rings.

Note to Jerry Moos: On this bike, I have really small stainless steel washe rs between the Dome Nuts and the ring. I _think_ they're #8, but I don't r ecall off hand. In any event, I bought them from West Marine.
     Cheers,
     Fred Rednor - Arlington, Virginia (USA)


--- On Thu, 8/7/08, Wesley Gadd wrote:


> From: Wesley Gadd <wesleygadd@sbcglobal.net>
> Subject: Re: [CR]TA Pro 5 Vis on Fixed Wheel?
> To: "Jerome & Elizabeth Moos" <jerrymoos@sbcglobal.net>, "Longleaf Bicycl es" <longleafbicycles@gmail.com>, classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
> Date: Thursday, August 7, 2008, 3:19 PM
> I've been using this set for fixed gear for years. I
> have a range of inch pitch rings (21, 22 and 24 teeth) as
> well as a 50 tooth 3/32 single ring. The inch pitch rings
> are beefy as hell, but I really don't notice any flex
> with the much thinner single 3/32 ring. For me, bothersome
> flex manifests itself as the chain rubbing on the front
> derailleur, a moot point in this case.
> There were indeed track adapteurs for both 3 and 5 pin
> cranks. I always thought a 3 pin adapteur on a steel Campy
> Gran Sport crank would be a great fixed setup!
>
> Best regards,
> Wes Gadd
> Unionville,CT
>
> Jerome & Elizabeth Moos <jerrymoos@sbcglobal.net>
> wrote:
> TA made an absolutely bewildering variety of rings and
> adapters to fit those arms. It is true that some believe
> that, even for road use, the TA cranks has too much flex due
> to the small BCD of the outer ring. I don't really think
> the second ring does anything the stiffen things, as the
> flexing is going to be between the outside of the outer ring
> and its attachment to the crank arm. A track ring made for
> 1/8 inch chain is going to be thicker and stiffer than a
> road ring, but may still flex more than some would like.
>
> However, TA made a number of different "adapters"
> which consisted of spiders which bolted to the arm in place
> of an outside chainring. These were much thicker and stiffer
> than an outer ring bolted direct to the arm. The chainrings
> themselves then had a much larger BCD and bolted to the
> adapter. Maybe the best known adapter is the Criterium
> adapter for 151 or 152 BCD Criterium rings. These were
> widely used In The Day by road racers and time trialists,
> and in fact I have a book published in the 70's with a
> photos of the great Beryl Burton using a TA Criterium
> adapter and rings on a Jacques Anquetil frame. It might be
> that the Criterium rings were available for 1/8 inch track
> chain and could be used with fixed gear, although of course
> shorter bolts would be required for attachment to the
> adapter. One would think the shorter bolts were made, if
> nothing else for use with a single 3/32 ring for time trial,
> as single chainring setups were widely used for TT In The
> Day.
>
> Or it may be that TA made an adapter specitically for track
> use.
>
> Regards,
>
> Jerry Moos
> Big Spring, Texas, USA
>
>
>
>
> Longleaf Bicycles wrote:
> I'm looking for some cranks for a new fixed wheel
> project (modern frameset)
> and I'm not excited about current (non Record) single
> chainring crank
> offerings.
>
> I have a spare set of TA Pro 5 crankarms, but have never
> used these on a
> fixed wheel bike. I am concerned that the lack of a second
> ring to stiffen
> the outer ring and the higher torque placed on the
> drivetrain of a fixed
> wheel bike makes the small BCD of the TA cranks unsuitable.
>
> Is this a misplaced concern? Has anyone tried this? I
> don't care about a
> little flex and while it might be silly and an
> overestimation of my own
> power to think I'd bend a chainring the idea gave me
> enough pause that I
> thought I'd ask for some advice.
>
> Anthony King
> Longleaf Bicycles
> 805 B North Fourth St..
> Wilmington, North Carolina 28401
> 910.341.3049 p
> 910.341.3059 f
> longleafbicycles.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________

------------------------------

_______________________________________________

End of Classicrendezvous Digest, Vol 68, Issue 24 *************************************************