[CR]wheels, tension, nipples, and the A word...

(Example: Component Manufacturers:Ideale)

Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2008 10:41:14 -0700 (PDT)
From: "Tom Dalton" <tom_s_dalton@yahoo.com>
To: rpstcyr@hotmail.com, transition202@hotmail.com, mrrabbit@mrrabbit.net
cc: Classic Rendezvous <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>
Subject: [CR]wheels, tension, nipples, and the A word...


Robert St Cyr said:

With the rims I noticed a pattern of the spokes closest to the seam to tension more quickly due to the thicker material in

the rim at the seam. When at Interbike last week I asked one of the velocit y reps If this was the case and he said it was true. One can compensate by

adding a 1 mm longer spoke or simply backing off the spokes in that area ju st slightly.

Robert, I know you know this, but what you've said might be confusing to re aders.  Changing the length of the spoke does not change its final tensio n it only changes where the nipple sits along the length of the thread.  You might use a longer spoke in the situation that you describe in order to get full engagement of the spoke threads, but that does not alter the fi nal tension.  If the rim builds up in a way that requires relatively tigh t or relatively loose spokes near the joint in order to get it round, a s they often do, then it's simply a bad rim, though not necessarily unusabl e or defective.  It's a common problem, but lenghtening (or shortening) a spoke won't resolve it.  

This is not unlike calling the setup of indexed shifter cables a tension adjustment, when it is really a change to the effective cable length.

Robert Shackelford wrote: 3.  Nipple glues (i.e., dried paint in the old days) are too often a tool used not to build a better wheel - but instead to obsfuscate a builder's inferio rity complex over proper tensionsing.  Tensioning a wheel properly assuming no n- defective parts make "glues" unneccessary.

Robert, while I agree with essentailly all the other stuff you're said rega rding the unnecessity of dial gauges (useless data for certain, unless you' re selling specs!) and tensiometers, I strongly disagree with your assessme nt of nipple compounds.  While they may be abused by people using them to keep weak undertensioned wheels from rattling apart, they also have excell ent utility in correctly built wheels.  My properly built wheels only got better and easier to live with when I started to use Spoke Prep.  The ac tion at the nipple is smoother and you can make smaller changes in spoke te nsion, because the material acts as a lubricant.  Unlike oils and greases , WHICH HAVE NO PLACE ON SPOKE THREADS, Spoke Prep does not lead to unwindl ing, and actually stabilizes the nipple.  In many cases stainless spokes in brass nipples can corrode and sieze, and Spoke Prep eliminates this prob lem too.   As for materials that form a solid bond, like certain Locktite compounds, that's just a bad choice because it interferes with la ter adjustments.   So, old school stuff like honey, linseed oil, or old paint (new to me) might be be more period correct, but Spoke Prep is a gre at product for skilled builders.  Pure lubes (oils and greases) and glues (locktite) are more than a little problematic.  Lube on the nipple sea t is a different matter, and not a problem in my experience, though I only do it where I can feel a need. 

Tom Harriman wrote:

Having both ridden both store bought wheels and wheels of my own making, I would like to shed a little light on this subject...

We should all take comfort and pride in the fact that we are helping to kee p the art of wheel build alive and strong in our culture.

Tom, Thanks for shedding light on this, but the question was directed specifical ly at Earle, and having built a few hundred wheels myself and handled tho usands of machine buit wheels, I am familiar with the differences. 

When the final result of a job correctly done looks the same, and IS the  same, irrespective of who did it, it is NOT art.  Calling wheelbuil ding art contributes to the overblown mystique of this basic skill.  

I realize that I sound a bit terse here, but I sometimes feel like people d on't read all the words my messages.  I think it was pretty clear where I was headed in my message to Earle, which is that I don't think he has any objective basis for his unusually high regard for his own product, and I ce rtainly don't think of wheelbuilding as some mystical craft, let alone art.   It reminds me of the day I received a resprayed frame in the mail from an unnamed painter, and without telling me he added a large, conspicuous an d especially ugly decal to advertize his company under my clear coat.  Wh en I questioned it, he was puzzled as to why I took issue, and said it wa s "like an artist signing his work."  When I choose the single color, provide the decals and specify their placement, where is the art?

Tom Dalton Bethlehem, Pennsylvania, USA

Tom Dalton