Re: [CR]Jack Hateley 531 road frame with 140 mm rear spacing FS

(Example: Framebuilders:Doug Fattic)

Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2008 23:02:47 -0500
To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
From: "Mark Stonich" <mark@bikesmithdesign.com>
Subject: Re: [CR]Jack Hateley 531 road frame with 140 mm rear spacing FS
In-Reply-To: <12CAD406-D40E-49F7-847F-D10050EC6F6A@earthlink.net>
References: <12CAD406-D40E-49F7-847F-D10050EC6F6A@earthlink.net>


At 06:09 PM 9/30/2008, Jon Spangler wrote:
>Folks,
>
>There is a gorgeous and intriguing Jack Hateley 531 road frame for
>sale in GB that has spent time in local museums there:
>
>JACK HATELEY 50s Hdblt 531 ENGLISH ROAD FRAME
>Item Number: 350101398809
>
>I received the following reply when I asked the seller (apparently an
>agent) about the frame's listed 140 mm rear spacing:
>
>"Hi,Not sure but during the period that this frame was made there was
>a lot of experimentation and design concepts produced.It could be
>that a Sturmey hub had been combined with a cyclo style freewheel
>making quite an interesting gear combination.It would easily be reset
>down to 130mm etc by a pro builder or LBshop. Hope that helps. Might
>be worth trying ClassicRendezvous for more info and this frame is I
>believe shown and listed by Wolverhampton Museum.Happy pedalling alex"
>
>Has anyone else in CR land seen this 140 mm rear spacing before or
>been to the Wolverhampton Museum?

I'd be surprised if anyone made SA axles long enough to go 140mm in those days, though some of the modern ones are, I have an aftermarket Sturmey AW axle intended for use with a multi speed cluster. It is no longer than a standard "long" 6-1/4" axle, and just moves the hub to the left to make room for a freewheel. http://bikesmithdesign.com/SA/CustomAxle.jpg Does anyone know anything about these axles?

One reason for wide rear spacing is that you can eliminate dish in the wheel. When I build a frame I offset the rear triangle to accomplish this, allowing 1.8-1.5-1.8mm DT Revolution spokes on both sided of the wheel. I can adequately stretch all the spokes with much less stress on the rim.

But for the clusters available in the '50s I think 130mm would have done that. I expect the rear end was respaced later, probably when the BOs & derailleur hanger were added. It would be interesting to see if the stays are bowed out at the bridges. It would be noticable on the seat stays. However some framebuilders do replace the brake bridge when respacing the rear end to avoid a bend in the seat stays. And someone with some frame builders skills was obviously involved in the modifications.

I'm sure that everything Norris says about the frame is true, but it's still interesting. It's my size and I like the color. If it were here in the US (cheaper S&H) and that BIN price was in USD instead of GBP I would consider it.

Mark Stonich;
     BikeSmith Design & Fabrication
       5349 Elliot Ave S. - Minneapolis. MN 55417
            Ph. (612) 824-2372 http://bikesmithdesign.com
                        http://mnhpva.org