Re: [CR]Rene Herse cranks price

(Example: Events:Eroica)

Date: Thu, 9 Oct 2008 06:55:42 -0700 (PDT)
From: Jerome & Elizabeth Moos <jerrymoos@sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: [CR]Rene Herse cranks price
To: Alex March <alexpianos@yahoo.fr>, Untitled <Classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>, Michael Schmidt <mdschmidt56@verizon.net>
In-Reply-To: <C513512B.B262%mdschmidt56@verizon.net>


Actually, I think collectibles like bikes and antique cars, which have a lo t of components, will always sell for less than the sum of their parts.  Just basic psychology.  If a collector has a special bike lacking only the correct crank, or toeclips, or bar plugs, he may be willing to pay what seems a very high price for one component to complete a bike worth several thousand dollars.  If he did that with every component the total would f ar exceed the value of the complete bike, but th point is, the collector ty pically only needs one or a few parts to complete the project, which is why he will pay a big price.  This inevitably leads to an incentive to p art out bikes, but I don't know how you avoid that. 

 Actually, while eBay has given the Japanese colectors better access to p arts in Europe and America, I believe on average it has reduced the prices of classic bike parts.  Just before the advent of eBay and popolarization of the internet, a small number of US sellers had nearly cornered the mark et in some classic bike parts.  Sometimes, when one needed a particular b it to complete a project, there was only one example available at the time, and one either paid the price the seller asked or did not complete the pro ject.  Not that the sellers were greedy or bad guys - most were actually nice guys and many parts were reasonable, but if you have only one of an it em, and no one else has it, you are probably not going to sell it cheap.  But with eBay almost anyone it the world with classic parts can sell to an yone else in the world relatively conveniently.  This has pulled into the market huge numbers of components that previously would have continued gathering dust in attics and garages because their owners did not think th ere was a market for them, or could not conveniently access that market.  Overall, I think the increase in supply has exceeded the increase in deman d from places like Japan.

Regards,

Jerry Moos
Big Spring, Texas, USA


--- On Thu, 10/9/08, Michael Schmidt wrote:


From: Michael Schmidt <mdschmidt56@verizon.net> Subject: Re: [CR]Rene Herse cranks price To: "Alex March" <alexpianos@yahoo.fr>, "Untitled" <Classicrendezvous@bikel ist.org> Date: Thursday, October 9, 2008, 5:11 AM

Alex,

The Japanese dictate the current market price (atmo) for French high end bikes so I would say the answer lay within the land of the rising sun.

I agree that the original bike is more valuable than a cobbled together Herse or Singer. But because the frames are so rare, buyers are primarily looking at size, year and model as opposed to originality.

Mike Schmidt Stirling, NJ USA

On 10/9/08 3:49 AM, "alex m" <alexpianos@yahoo.fr> wrote:
> This price is not really surprising, many Rene Herse bikes were modernize d
> over the years and ended up with just the frame original, so there are more
> incomplete bikes out there than there are parts. And Rene Herse parts were
> specific to Rene Herse bicycles, so there is no "exterior" supply of parts
> from lesser bikes, as is the case for Cinelli, Masi, Colnago, or other con
> structeur bikes who used Mafac or Stronglight.
>
> What is surprising and to me illogical and beyond my understanding, is that
> the price of a complete and original top of the range bikes isn't higher :
> how can you possibly justify the fact that a complete and original bike wi
> ll almost systematically sell for less (sometimes a lot less) than the su m
> of its parts and the frame sold separately? A bike (re)made up from a sum o
> f parts, even correct (and how can you know for sure what the bike was orig
> inally anyway in the case of a handbuilt where no two bikes were identical?
> ), is not as good as the bike with its own parts as it left the workshop...
>
> Maybe one day the market will come to its senses? But how many lovely bikes
> will have been taken apart in the meantime?
>
> Alexander March
> Bordeaux
> France