[CR]Fw: Re: Brooks swallow (GULP...)

From: Tom Martin <tom@voimports.com> Subject: Brooks swallow (GULP...) To: jerrymoos@sbcglobal.net, "Classic Rendezvous" <classicrendezvous@bikeli st.org>, veronaman@gmail.com Date: Sunday, November 16, 2008, 12:37 PM

I think the '$50' premium for a Ti rail version is a little unrealistic. Th e Brooks is a unique saddle with a LOT more metal and skilled labor involve d than any other saddle. Most contemporary saddles have one 300mm piece of steel, or ti, or whatever metal, rod or tube bent into a seat rail. There i sn't any welding or additional hardware necessary, as it's wedged into the saddle shell. The saddle shell is flexed to fit the rail in the cleats hold ing it. Brooks, on the other hand, has a cantle plate which is cast or forged Ti; t here are the much longer ti trails; there is a bolt and nut which is Ti; th ere is a nose 'mandrel' made of Ti. The rails must be welded to the cantlep late; the cantleplate must be riveted to the leather top; the nose parts mu st be assembled. There's more than just the material costs involved- which is not cheap by itself. Welding Ti is not cheap. We can assume the wages of British saddle makers are not 3rd world level so there is a moderate cost impact for assembling the remainder of the saddle.

Personally I think the B17 is just now being properly valued at ~$90-110. T he days of $50 brooks are long gone, thankfully so. They really are an arti fact from a time where 'hand made' meant something and was prevalant even i n industrial settings. 

Tom Martin Annapolis MD usa

---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Jerome & Elizabeth Moos <jerrymoos@sbcglobal.net> To: CLASSIC RENDEZVOUS <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>, Angel Garcia <ve ronaman@gmail.com> Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2008 17:11:24 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: [CR]Brooks Limited Edition Swallow Sale Well evidently Selle San Marco, or is it Selle Italia, I always forget whic h, found that the Limited Edition price was just a bit too excessive, and i s discounting heavily to move the unsold inventory, as they did with the Sp rinter, which was just too narrow for the market.  It is rather ironic th at the Limited Edition is almost $100 cheaper than the Swallow Classic.  Either they are going to have to reduce the Classic, or they are going to s ell very few until the Limited Edition inventory is cleared out. 

Personally, I find the price of Ti Brooks saddles ridiculous, and simple refuse to pay it.  The steel rail models, on the other hand, though they have gone up, can be argued to now be fairly priced for their quality.  I  have several Ti Brooks', and like them, but they were all bought before th e outrageous price increases.  Not long ago, I offered to trade an NIB Ti  Swift even up for a steel railed Swallow.  I had one taker, and anothe r paid cash equal to the best price of a steel Swallow I could find.  So I have the steel Swallow, and I used the cash to buy two of the Swallow-type VeloOrange steel railed saddles which they had on sale for $75 each.  I'm  not interested in a Ti Swallow even at the "sale" price of $395.  I've n o intension of buying more Ti Brooks saddles unless they get real and charg e a resonable premium fot the Ti rails, which in my opinion is maybe $50.

Meantime, I just got my latest Cycling Plus with a brief review of the Broo ks B17 Imperial, a saddle with a cutout in the center, supposedly a reissue  of a 110 year old Brooks design.  The UK price is quoted as 64.99 GBP, w hich would be about $120 USD.  Not bad at all.  Comes in Standard, Narr ow and a shorter women's version.  Chromed steel rails of course.  The Ti version will probably be about $400 USD.

Regards,

Jerry Moos
Big Spring, Texas, USA