[CR]Re: Brooks swallow (GULP...)

(Example: Component Manufacturers:Chater-Lea)

In-Reply-To: <000001c94839$386eefe0$0200a8c0@D4Q1RPB1>
References: <MONKEYFOODxNIeA8UJ40000264a@monkeyfood.nt.phred.org>
Date: Sun, 16 Nov 2008 21:05:44 -0800
To: "Mark Ritz" <ritzmon@sbcglobal.net>, <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>
From: "Jan Heine" <heine94@earthlink.net>
Subject: [CR]Re: Brooks swallow (GULP...)


At 2:18 PM -0800 11/16/08, Mark Ritz wrote:
>the cost of the tooling to either forge or
>cast titanium is exceedingly expensive and must be amortized into the
>cost
>of these saddles.

First, a technical note. Even though Tom thought the cantle plates were cast or forged, this is not correct. They are stamped. In fact, I cannot think of a part of a Brooks saddle that is forged or cast. Most of the parts are stamped. Of course, stamping dies aren't cheap, either, especially considering the thickness of the material that is involved on the frame pieces.

Also, it may be that stamping ti wears the dies faster than working with steel.

Beyond that, does Brooks use dedicated tooling for their ti saddles, or do they just place titanium in the place of steel when they make these parts? When you compare the dimensions of the cantle plates for Brooks ti and Brooks steel saddles, they are so similar that the tooling appears to be very similar.

I really don't know, and all the reports I have seen from the Brooks factory recently were strong on atmosphere and weak on technical details. Similarly, the steel vs. titanium versions of the Huret Challenger and Duopar derailleurs look like they were made on the same tooling, but we don't know.

Somebody with experience in working with titanium (Bruce Gordon?) may be able to tell us whether it would even be possible to use the same dies to stamp steel and titanium parts.

Jan Heine
Editor
Bicycle Quarterly
140 Lakeside Ave #C
Seattle WA 98122
http://www.bikequarterly.com