Re: [CR]Cantiflex Ephgrave


Example: Events:Cirque du Cyclisme

Date: Sat, 6 Dec 2008 06:41:20 -0800 (PST)
From: Jerome & Elizabeth Moos <jerrymoos@sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: [CR]Cantiflex Ephgrave
To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org, donald gillies <gillies@ece.ubc.ca>
In-Reply-To: <20081206051643.E6E53EC89@ug14.ece.ubc.ca>


Once one does a replica, it is hard to know how much lattitude to take.   For instance, I suspect the same analysis of my Ron Cooper-built New Bat es would identify several bits newer than the last Bates actually overseen by Horace. But I guesss a Cooper/Bates is a "revival" rather a reproduction , so maybe that justifies more liberties.

One of the things those arguing that my Ephrave No. 1 is a fake cite is som e too-new brazeons, Definitely 70's or early 80's, while Les died in 1969.   To me this only indicates the bike was refinished, with brazens added.   I have never had any problem adding brazeons when refinishing a frame, and in fact my first two top model lightweights, a LeJeune F-70 and a Winds or Pro, both have had brazeons added when refinished over the years.  I'v e never even considered having useful brazeons removed for the sake of orig inality.  To me this is part of the overall appeal of brazed steel frames - they are, to use the cliche, not a destination but a journey, capable of lasting generations and passing from one owner to another, being repaired when damaged, and being modified to suit the needs of a new owner and a new generation of available components.

Now I will confess I might hesitate to add brazeons to an Herse, and probab ly wouldn't even have added them to an Ephgrave No. 1, though I'm certainly not going to redo an excellent refinishing job just to remove them.  So maybe Don feels the same about a commissioned replica, even though, as a hy brid of two classic marques it can't ever be "accurate".

Regards,

Jerry Moos
Big Spring, Texas, USA


--- On Fri, 12/5/08, donald gillies wrote:


From: donald gillies <gillies@ece.ubc.ca> Subject: Re: [CR]Cantiflex Ephgrave To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org Date: Friday, December 5, 2008, 11:16 PM

I think it would be better to call it a "Cantigrave" than an "Ephflex".

I'd like to compliment the builder and say it's the finest rear brake bridge I've EVER seen in my life. The arch and flow and simplicity make it PERFECT. Another nice thing I can say to the builder is, "I have never wanted an Ephgrave until I saw this paint job on this bike." I can think of almost no higher compliment.

But, if I were commissioning the replica, I would have tried harder to match the periods of the frameset features :

Campy BB Routing ~ late 70's That Reynolds 531 decal ~ early-mid 60's Downtube bottle mounts ~ mid 70's Campy 1010B dropouts ~ late 70's Solid (not hollow) seatlug ears ~ late 70's Colnago / Bruce Gordon type dropout brazing ~ early 70's. Chromed Dropout faces ~ late 70's / early 80's

These may not be exactly the right time periods, but they are the time periods that I associate with widespread adoption of these features.

- Don Gillies
San Diego, CA, USA