Re: [CR]Cantiflex Ephgrave

Example: Racing:Jean Robic

From: "kevin sayles" <>
To: <>
References: <>
In-Reply-To: <>
Subject: Re: [CR]Cantiflex Ephgrave
Date: Sat, 6 Dec 2008 16:04:36 -0000

On the topic of 'replica frames' 'ten bobs worth' [another Brit currency term] is that I feel it's ok to do a 'replica' just so long as you are not trying to pass it off as as an original.

I think its a wonderful way of keeping a particular style, or marque, prominent in the eyes of those who care about such things [that will be the likes of most on this list then?] and being a framebuilder I have the means to be able to re-create certain frames [tubing and fittings allowing] in the style of some well known marques, or indeed in my own style of years past, ie; the 70s 80s etc

I have a ongoing project in re-creating a 'Faema team bike' which I am almost ready to start building [just waiting for my fork crown from Richard Sachs] once its completed it will look like an original.......but although there will be close simularitys to a 'Masi' upon closer inspection, especially to a 'Masi' expert, it will be obvious it isn't a Masi, and discreetly positioned will be my own 'signiture feature' in no way is it trying to be an 'original'.

Likewise I have also had interest from a list member to build him a replica Hobbs frame, he has a set of original Hobbs lugs, so to all intents and purposes it will be a 'Hobbs' ...but I will add my own discreet feature to indicate that 'I made it' therfore it will be a honest 'replica' I guess it's simular to someone building a replica 'AC Cobra' or whatever, I suppose the classic car guys have the same dilema?

Food for thought perhaps?

Kevin Sayles
Bridgwater. Somerset. UK

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jerome & Elizabeth Moos"
To: ; "donald gillies"
Sent: Saturday, December 06, 2008 2:41 PM
Subject: Re: [CR]Cantiflex Ephgrave

> Once one does a replica, it is hard to know how much lattitude to take.
> For instance, I suspect the same analysis of my Ron Cooper-built New Bat
> es would identify several bits newer than the last Bates actually overseen
> by Horace. But I guesss a Cooper/Bates is a "revival" rather a
> reproduction
> , so maybe that justifies more liberties.
> One of the things those arguing that my Ephrave No. 1 is a fake cite is
> som
> e too-new brazeons, Definitely 70's or early 80's, while Les died in 1969.
> To me this only indicates the bike was refinished, with brazens added.
> I have never had any problem adding brazeons when refinishing a frame,
> and in fact my first two top model lightweights, a LeJeune F-70 and a
> Winds
> or Pro, both have had brazeons added when refinished over the years. I'v
> e never even considered having useful brazeons removed for the sake of
> orig
> inality. To me this is part of the overall appeal of brazed steel frames
> - they are, to use the cliche, not a destination but a journey, capable of
> lasting generations and passing from one owner to another, being repaired
> when damaged, and being modified to suit the needs of a new owner and a
> new
> generation of available components.
> Now I will confess I might hesitate to add brazeons to an Herse, and
> probab
> ly wouldn't even have added them to an Ephgrave No. 1, though I'm
> certainly
> not going to redo an excellent refinishing job just to remove them. So
> maybe Don feels the same about a commissioned replica, even though, as a
> hy
> brid of two classic marques it can't ever be "accurate".
> Regards,
> Jerry Moos
> Big Spring, Texas, USA
> --- On Fri, 12/5/08, donald gillies <> wrote:
> From: donald gillies <>
> Subject: Re: [CR]Cantiflex Ephgrave
> To:
> Date: Friday, December 5, 2008, 11:16 PM
> I think it would be better to call it a "Cantigrave" than an
> "Ephflex".
> I'd like to compliment the builder and say it's the finest rear brake
> bridge I've EVER seen in my life. The arch and flow and simplicity
> make it PERFECT. Another nice thing I can say to the builder is, "I
> have never wanted an Ephgrave until I saw this paint job on this
> bike." I can think of almost no higher compliment.
> But, if I were commissioning the replica, I would have tried harder to
> match the periods of the frameset features :
> Campy BB Routing ~ late 70's
> That Reynolds 531 decal ~ early-mid 60's
> Downtube bottle mounts ~ mid 70's
> Campy 1010B dropouts ~ late 70's
> Solid (not hollow) seatlug ears ~ late 70's
> Colnago / Bruce Gordon type dropout brazing ~ early 70's.
> Chromed Dropout faces ~ late 70's / early 80's
> These may not be exactly the right time periods, but they are the time
> periods that I associate with widespread adoption of these features.
> - Don Gillies
> San Diego, CA, USA