Re: [CR]Re real or fake panto

Example: Production Builders:Pogliaghi

Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2008 16:20:39 -0800
From: Kurt Sperry <>
To: Bruce Audino <>
Subject: Re: [CR]Re real or fake panto
In-Reply-To: <>
References: <71335EC2809D41FDB50C7A53049B4912@sn2046777123>

Here's a link to an album of mostly ebay pics of Conago pantographed stems. Feel free to leave comments on which you think are real and which- maybe not so much.

Kurt Sperry Bellingham, Washington USA

2008/12/17 Bruce Audino <>
> This seller always seems to have tons of panto items as well as lots of
> other NOS stuff. I'm sure some of you have come across them in your
> searches.
> Do these items seem like recent or original panto work? I've watched a
> couple of SR De Rosa panto chainrings that have looked nice, but seem to
> fetch a hefty sum.
> Link to Colnago shifter example:
> Cheers,
> Bruce Audino
> NY, NY
> On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 6:13 PM, Greg S <> wrote:
> > Hi Mark,
> > You are totally correct to be suspicious. I have been taking a close
> > look at recent pantographing sales on ebay and the thing that distresses
> > me most is that they are all so incorrect.
> > The seller you mentioned sold two 1st series Colnago Pantografata seat
> > posts (rhombus)recently and they looked pretty good compared to the
> > normal offerings. Problem with them was that they were 27mm where they
> > should have been 27.2mm which was the size of those frames in 73.
> > The stem you mentioned is way off. Has nice rhombus panto on top but the
> > engraved Colnago is twice the size it should be and the 1a stem should
> > be the early nutted version.
> > The bars are wrong as Colnago never offered this - only fine stamping of
> > his head tube badge on the left side of the 3T bars.
> > Engraving of deraileurs is a new concept and Colnago favoured cut-out
> > and infilled with paint shift levers.
> > Brake levers were cut out in two sections at the rear of the handle as
> > well as pantograhed.
> > Let me be totally frank...I have no problem with components being
> > pantographed as long as the patterns are correct and the components are
> > period correct. What will happen is that the correct look and history of
> > these bikes will in time become blurred as more and more bikes are being
> > built with the wrong designs. In a decade or two they will appear as
> > undisputedly genuine. Unless there is some reference guide as to what
> > original 70s and 80s pantograph designs actually looked like these
> > modern 2nd rate incorrect replicas will be considered original and
> > correct. I have begun to get as much of this as I can in picture form in
> > my flickr site...but this is still a work in progress.
> >
> > Recently a set of deltas brakes appeared with large Colnago club
> > engravings. They looked nice and fetched an above market price. Deltas
> > were never engraved. This was recent pantographing. I purchased an
> > original set of NOS deltas a year ago with the Colnago club and text on
> > the plates and these are original and they are decals - not engraving.
> > The seller of the deltas with the engraved plates mentioned in his
> > recent ebay ad that these were the 'real thing', not the cheap copy
> > decals!! I purchased my original deltas with original decals from his
> > close business associate!
> > The good news is that the prices that have been achieved are way under
> > what original items have been selling for. Therefore we can assume that
> > buyers are more savvy about originality than we might presume. Some of
> > the pantoigraphing in my opinion has simply ruined good NR/SR components
> > and turned them into trash.
> > Sorry about the long email, but this is an issue that seems to have been
> > neglected. I
> > Greg Softley
> > Coffs Harbour
> > Australia