Re: [CR]Help with frame ID?


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Date: Thu, 25 Dec 2008 13:04:00 -0800
From: Kelly Donovan <kpug505@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [CR]Help with frame ID?
To: <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>
In-Reply-To: <bfe.536713e8.3684908a@aol.com>


Hello list and thanks for the responses! I hope I'm replying correctly!

Anyways, Mr. Agree......I dare say you nailed it! That Ives looks exactly like my fr ame minus the chrome. Thank you so much! Now for the fun part. What to build it with? Probably gonna go with full NR . Maybe something a lil' different like some Galli....

Thanks again,
Kelly M. Donovan
Puyallup Washington USA


--- On Wed, 12/24/08, FujiFish1@aol.com wrote:
From: FujiFish1@aol.com
Subject: Re: [CR]Help with frame ID?
To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
Cc: kpug505@yahoo.com
Date: Wednesday, December 24, 2008, 11:30 PM


Hi Kelly, Welcome out of lurk mode.  Pretty sure your frame set is built by Losa, which is (was?) a large contract builder in Italy, for several name brands.  This looks similar in nature to the early-mid 70s Guerciotti frames, and Losa was known to be a m ain contractor for 1970s Guerciottis.  Pics of one belonging to a list member can be seen at the CR Guerciotti page.  It's the oldest one shown, here: <http://www.classicrendezvous.com/Italy/Guerciotti/Guerciotti_J-Bissell.htm
>

I bought an orange frame from California (since traded for another frame, discussed below) that was part of an unbranded batch brought into

the LA area in the early-mid 70s, and subsequently decaled with a private l abel ... Ferrari.  I would not expect to see any others with this label, since

it was the first owner, Fred Ferrari, who put his (wife's) name on it.  It has all the same bells and whistles as the Guerciotti above, right down to the distinguishing huge gaping cut-outs fro m under the b.b. shell.  However, the steer tube is not rifled inside (long before the release of SLX, all Columbus SL frames had this feature, at least since the 1950s), and it was a tad heavier than a typical SL frameset.  I still have poor quality pics of it here: <http://www.wooljersey.com/gallery/fujifish1/MarksVintage/MarksSoldBikes/ Ferrari_Fixed/> Two pages of pics ... click on any thumb to see medium, then click again for closer view.

I have seen Italian built Magni bikes from this time, that also display the

same basic lug windows, in addition to a unique shape that shows up on a lo t of late 70s and early 80s Losas, and they are commonly mixed around in layout and order, perhaps to help separate one company's frames from another.  For some reason, I've failed to save pics any of the Magnis that more closely match the early Guerciottis.  I've petitioned the CR list for photos of these early Magnis, but I've yet to have anyone step up to the plate and email anything.

The California frame mentioned above, was traded (to another list member,

back in California, btw), for one labeled IVES that again, I feel was made by the same contract factory.  This one is a bit older, from

about 1972 given the top of b.b. cable guides, and there are some key differences from the others I've cited above, while some of the tell

tale signs are still there.  Perhaps this one is most like yours, given t he teardrops above and below the lugs.  Haven't worked on it at all and I didn't have any good pics of it yet, so I just ran downstairs and shot a fe w quickies just to show the features.  You can see those (brightened) pics

here: http://www.wooljersey.com/gallery/fujifish1/MarksVintage/Ives72Red54cm/

Now, the reason I feel strongly that these are made by Losa, is that I've been watching Losa frames on Ebay (mostly offered in Italy), and tho se same lug window themes keep showing up, again and again with variation. 

I've saved some of those pics (with marque names like Guerciotti, Monti, Ciprandi, Magni, etc.) and posted PLENTY of them (3 pages worth) for you here: http://www.wooljersey.com/gallery/fujifish1/OtherBikes/LosaComps/ 

Some of the less known bikes in the above links were being sold on Ebay and

advertised as having been Losa built.  The bikes range in date throughout

the 70s, and then there are one or two from the 80s. Look at all the swapped around use of circles, tear drops, and the two distinct shapes, along with the dropout and seat stay top treatments, fork tangs and the style of fork crowns and b.b. shells used, and I think that you will likely agree that yours is definitely from this "family".

I also JUST found comparison pics that I remembered to take of the Ferrari and Ives side by side when they were passing here like ships in the night, and the similarities are indisputable in my

opinion.  I can post or send those pics too, if asked, but this was enough for now.  Hope this has helped!

Ciao, Mark Agree Southfield MI USA ~ ~ ~

Date: Wed, 24 Dec 2008 15:58:56 -0800 From: Kelly Donovan <kpug505@yahoo.com> To: <Classicrendezvous@bikelist.org> Subject: [CR]Help with frame ID?

Hello list members and happy holidays!

This is my first post after lurking for a good long while so please forgive my newbness. I recently acquired a frame that seems very nice. It has had an obvious rep aint and has no serial #'s. I'm having a hard time trying to figure out wha t it is because it is strange to my eyes. Some clues that I think are worth mentioning: )The bottom bracket measures 70mm so I assume it's Italian in origin. )The lugs have a teardrop window cut into them which I've never seen before and the lug that connects the toptube and headtube have points of nearly e qual length with identical windows top and bottom. Kinda strange..... )It has Campagnolo dropouts and the stays and fork blades are filed to a pe rfectly square end where they meet the dropout. ) Something that may help dating it is that it has no cable guides other th an for the shift cables and it has a cable stop on the chainstay. It does n ot have brake cable guides or downtube shifter braze ons. )It uses a 27.2 seat post.

Well that's all I know. If you like... You are welcome to view some pics of it on my flickr page here: http://www.flickr.com/photos/21162852@N07/

It's the red one....

Thanks for any help and again....Happy Holidays!

Cheers! Kelly M. Donovan Puyallup Washington USA

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