[CR]RE: Anyone have any idea


Example: Events:Cirque du Cyclisme:2004

From: Jeff Kliewer <kliewer2002@hotmail.com>
To: <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>
Date: Sat, 27 Dec 2008 17:09:42 -0800
In-Reply-To: <MONKEYFOODQTYxBBUq70000237c@monkeyfood.nt.phred.org>
References:
Subject: [CR]RE: Anyone have any idea


What a 24k Gold Lambert (British) is worth? I Have one that has never been ridden (death fork). This is quite an odd machine. I found the ad on the classic rendezvous site . I have the bike and a "real" copy of the ad. If anyone is interested I can fwd pictures.

Jeff Kliewer Citrus Heights, CA 95610


> From: classicrendezvous-request@bikelist.org
> Subject: Classicrendezvous Digest, Vol 72, Issue 99
> To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
> Date: Sat, 27 Dec 2008 16:26:00 -0800
>
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> CR
>
> Today's Topics:
>
> 1.
> Rarest pump in the world ? Caminargent by AdHoc
> http://tinyurl.com/6wase6 (nicbordeaux)
> 2. Re: Dural Forged (john strizek)
> 3. WTB: vintage British fork (Michael Allison)
> 4. WTT 32H tubular rims for 36H (Michael Allison)
> 5. Brooks Imperial (Jerome & Elizabeth Moos)
> 6. Caminade pump, broken link http://tinyurl.com/6wase6 (nicbordeaux )
> 7. Eddy Merckx and De Rosa frame relationship? (Kevin Kruger)
> 8. FS: Holdsworth? & Info - Long (Eric Elman)
> 9. Re: Eddy Merckx and De Rosa frame relationship? (Dale Brown)
> 10. Re: FS: Holdsworth? & Info - Long (Robert Clair)
> 11. WTB Women's Lightweight (Mark Buswell)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Date: Sat, 27 Dec 2008 21:41:26 +0000
> From: nicbordeaux <nicbordeaux@yahoo.fr>
> To: <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>
> Subject: [CR]
> Rarest pump in the world ? Caminargent by AdHoc http://tinyurl.com/6wase 6
> Message-ID: <78994.99003.qm@web28007.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> MIME-Version: 1.0
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> Reply-To: nicbordeaux@yahoo.fr
> Message: 1
>
> Caminargent are sought after bicycles, the accessories are sought after as
> in stems etc. But then I find I have a Caminargent pump, likely a small run
> made by AdHoc. As far as I know, unique. Could be wrong of course. The las
> t thing I needed. Anyway, anybody interested in oggling a Caminargent e mbos
> sed pump complete with original water decal can visit http://tinyurl.com/ 6w
> ase6
> Â
> This isn't bragging or flashing, it's not an item I'm very interested i n, b
> ut for the record, the thing is photographed from one end to the other.
> Â
> Is it genuine ? Definitely. It fell of a Caminargent (one supposes) in a pi
> le of bikes a friend is kindly storing for me until I find the space and mo
> tivation to start work on 'em. Friend found it on the ground, plonked i t on
> a shelf, and when I dropped round saw a pump and thought "Nice, that 'll fi
> t on a old junker". Anyway, it would be cheaper or at least easier to f ake
> some gear with a pantograph machine than make up one of these pumps. Whil st
> on that subject, there is a French expression which goes "On ne fait d 'un
> âne un cheval de course", which means that you can't turn a donkey int
> o a racing horse. Unless you have a pantograph machine of course. So frie nd
> s, a word of advice if I may, don't put any money on a pantographed d onkey,
> even if it looks looks a surefire winner at 200/1.
> Â
> Nick March, Agen 47000 Lot et Garonne, France.


>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Sat, 27 Dec 2008 14:21:06 -0800
> From: john strizek <lyonstrings@yahoo.com>
> To: <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>
> Subject: [CR]Re: Dural Forged
> Message-ID: <136425.90892.qm@web50409.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
> In-Reply-To: <MONKEYFOODoPYzq67wn00002333@monkeyfood.nt.phred.org>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
> MIME-Version: 1.0
> Precedence: list
> Reply-To: lyonstrings@yahoo.com
> Message: 2
>
> Gee if these, not so pristine, Durals are $248 does that make my bett er con
> dition set with bronze bushings worth $1000? Likely not unless I can find a
> deranged buyer. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, is it not? When am I
> going to see some really valuable Weinmann 999s?
>
> If I had a ladies Paramount would it be worth more than a 'gents' becaus
> e it was built in lesser numbers? If I could only find the right buyer.
>
> Well I have to go back to the workshop to buff some more record calipers do
> wn past the lettering so they become the rare 'no-name' 'Campy' calipers.
>
>
> John Strizek
> Sacramento, California, in the USA
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Sat, 27 Dec 2008 17:46:50 -0500
> From: Michael Allison <cyclo_one@verizon.net>
> To: <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>
> Subject: [CR]WTB: vintage British fork
> Message-ID: <55A8F581-1491-45B3-8776-DBBB84DF8D27@verizon.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"; format=flowed; de lsp=yes
> MIME-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v930.3)
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> Precedence: list
> Message: 3
>
>
> Fellow bike nuts:
>
> Does anyone have an orphaned fork?? I want to buy a 1950s - early 60s
> British road bike fork to restore a 54 cm Holdsworth. The steerer tube
> must be at least 155 mm long with BSC threads. Back in the day those
> forks were pencil thin. Please respond off-list.
>
> May the New Year bring you the bike you've lusted for.
>
> Michael Allison
> New York, NY
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Sat, 27 Dec 2008 17:53:47 -0500
> From: Michael Allison <cyclo_one@verizon.net>
> To: <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>
> Subject: [CR]WTT 32H tubular rims for 36H
> Message-ID: <A808CD2F-0FDA-4A30-A420-89D9B21CFC36@verizon.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"; format=flowed; de lsp=yes
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>
>
> I have a set of NOS 32H Nisi Stretto tubular rims and washers that I
> want to trade for a pair of 36H tubular rims. They do not have to be
> new, just clean. Almost any tubular rims from the 50s - early 60s will
> do.
>
> Michael Allison
> New York, NY
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Sat, 27 Dec 2008 14:54:03 -0800
> From: Jerome & Elizabeth Moos <jerrymoos@sbcglobal.net>
> To: <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>
> Subject: [CR]Brooks Imperial
> Message-ID: <345139.55230.qm@web82206.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
> In-Reply-To: <4956831C.8020605@pure.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
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> Precedence: list
> Reply-To: jerrymoos@sbcglobal.net
> Message: 5
>
> I see the Brooks B17 Imperial is now available from the usual suspects, including Wallingford and Harris. Bicycle Classics doesn't list them yet , but I expect they soon will. Don't know if these have reached the LBS' s yet, like CdO and First Flight.
>
> I see they are initially offering the B17 Imperial in black only with sma ll steel rivets, in Standard, Narrow and a shorter, wider "S" woman's model. The Brooks website says at least a couple more versions will follo w. I know some on the list were involved in testing the prototypes of the new Imperial. So what other verisons are planned? Additional colors - hon ey, antique brown, BRG? Perhaps a "Champion Special" version with larg e copper rivets and copper plated rails? A Ti version?
>
> I'm glad Brooks chose to re-release the B17 Imperial in a version with st eel rails at a reasonable, if not cheap price. I think the US retail pri ce of around $150 is not at all unreasonable for a saddle of this quality. I'd like to see more colors and perhap the Champion Special trim, but pe rhaps that's in the pipeline. A Ti version would also be interesting, bu t not at recent Ti prices.
>
> It looks like the excessive Brooks Ti prices are beginning to crumble. W allingford is offering the Limited Edition Ti Swallow for $278 off list and strangely nearly $100 LESS than the standard Ti Swallow. They are also of fering on eBay "overstocked" Ti saddles, mostly Team Pros and B17 Champio n Specials in Honey, for $199 Buy It Now. In UK, SJS is offering the T i Swallow for what is now about $230 at the current more favorable exchange rate. And they deduct the VAT from that for US orders which brings it dow n close to $200. The B17 Champion Ti is offered at 100 GBP, or $148 even before deducting VAT. Like the Wallingfors specials, not all models and colors are available, but it appears Brooks' Italian owners realize they have about saturated the "price is no object" market, and are gradually m aking the Ti models available at a price that reflects reasonable value.
>
> Overall, despite the recent obscene Ti pricing, and some reported iss ues with leather quality, including Jan Heine's review of the Team Pro Ti in Bicycle Quarterly, I think the current owners have done an excellent job with the Brooks brand. I think reviving the Swallow and B17 Imperial w as brillant, although the B17 Sprinter evidently didn't work out as well. I know some fear the current owners are too profit-driven and wiil be tem pted to outsource to Asia, but hopefully they understand that Made in Eng land is a big part of the Brooks mystique.
>
> Regards,
>
> Jerry Moos
> Big Spring, Texas, USA
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Sat, 27 Dec 2008 22:59:19 +0000
> From: nicbordeaux <nicbordeaux@yahoo.fr>
> To: <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>
> Subject: [CR]Caminade pump, broken link http://tinyurl.com/6wase6
> Message-ID: <88533.20565.qm@web28001.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> MIME-Version: 1.0
> Precedence: list
> Reply-To: nicbordeaux@yahoo.fr
> Message: 6
>
> Sorry to post again on same topic, but I've had mail complaining that t he l
> ink provided doesn't work. The plain text format isn't working too well ( an
> y help anybody ?). The link is http://tinyurl.com/6wase6
> Â
> and if that is broken here it is again http://tinyurl.com/6wase6
> Â
> It is for this reason that the url is provided in the header, it just n eeds
> copying and pasting into the browser.
> Â
> Nick March, Agen 47000, France


>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Sat, 27 Dec 2008 15:20:01 -0800
> From: Kevin Kruger <ktk1_7_0_2_8@yahoo.com>
> To: <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>
> Subject: [CR]Eddy Merckx and De Rosa frame relationship?
> Message-ID: <813065.13796.qm@web31406.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
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> Reply-To: ktk1_7_0_2_8@yahoo.com
> Message: 7
>
> After seeing the photos of both Hilary's Eddy Merckx with De Rosa type co ns
> truction and his De Rosa with Eddy Merckx frame bits, I am curious if a nyon
> e else suspects that Eddy Merckx made the De Rosa frames in the 1980s???
>
> For some reason, I am under the impression that Merckx built the 80s De Ros
> a's due to strikingly similar frame contruction appearances.
>
> Not only do the frame's look nearly identical to my eye, but their resp ecti
> ve catalogs bear very similar photo layouts. Per an early Merckx catalog
> , "Ugo De Rosa came to Belgium and helped Eddy Merckx set up his ultra- mode
> rn workshops".
>
> Check out the Merckx vs. De Rosa frame catalog pages at the following Bul gi
> er links:
>
> http://bulgier.net/pics/bike/catalogs/eddy_merckx3/5.jpg
> http://bulgier.net/pics/bike/catalogs/de_rosa-86/3.jpg
>
>
> Am I the only one under this impression? Hope someone can set the record
> straight one way or the other for me.
>
> Regards,
> Kevin Kruger - Grantville, PA
>
>
>


>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Sat, 27 Dec 2008 18:51:24 -0500
> From: Eric Elman <tr4play@cox.net>
> To: <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>
> Subject: [CR]FS: Holdsworth? & Info - Long
> Message-ID: <002801c9687e$071a1e50$6401a8c0@acerad993ba82b>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
> MIME-Version: 1.0
> Precedence: list
> Message: 8
>
> Dear List,
>
> What a roller coaster. I see no way to prove my frame's provenance as a
  
> Holdsworth. That said, there is much reason to believe she is a
> Holdsworth, foremost because the previous owner, Dave Patrick, is a
  
> respected CR list member and I have no reason to doubt him or his word.
  
> However, once a frame's authenticity is reasonably questioned, it is
  
> difficult to write your eBay audience and say, "trust me because I trus t
> the previous owner, it's a Holdsworth." As soon as I could not provide
  
> evidence of her previous life combined with features that do raise doubt
  
> in numerous buyers minds, bids were cancelled even before I spoke up to
  
> the list and opened the Pandora's box. As you may have been reading
> on-list, there are differences of opinion as to who she was pre-paint
> and decals. I believe her to be a Holdsworth, especially in light of
> the many emails sent both on and off list. That is not meant to be
> disrespectful of those believing she is something other than a
> Holdsworth, it is simply the conclusion I come to based on Dave and muc h
> of the information offered in the last 24hrs. Probably the most
> important news came from Dave himself in that the frame, when acquired
  
> by him was badged a Holdsworth but decaled a Bob Addy. Given Bob's
> relationship with Holdsworth and key individuals in the company, this i s
> indeed very reasonable.
>
> Dave Patrick and I share a different view with regards to canceling the
> auction - he feels I was hasty, I believe that as the current owner and
  
> seller, I was prudent and erred on the side of my credibility and
> reputation. The frame will not go back on eBay as I do not have the
> time nor patience to deal with questions rehashing this over yet again.
  
> She is for sale to the CR list for $500 plus actual shipping. If you
> believe her to be a Holdsworth, it is a smacking good deal; if you
> believe her to be a Bob Jackson, it is still a very smart price; if y ou
> do not have an opinion but just want a darn cool frameset, well, you' d
> be hard pressed to find something this nice with such special details at
  
> such a price. First to claim her and pay the $500 promptly (Paypal at
> my email address) gets her. See details below my sign-off; pictures
> available if requested.
>
> This has been a challenging situation to navigate through; I have tried
  
> to do so without being accusatory, naming names inappropriately and
> striving to uphold the type of character I would expect of others toward
  
> me and this list.
>
> Happy & Healthy New Year to all,
>
> Eric Elman
> Somers, CT USA
>
> Below is the original description cut and pasted from Dave's auction
> when I purchased her in April of 2006:
>
> Here is an exceptional example of a rare Holdsworth Super Mistral
> Fastback model frameset circa '72. This frame fell just below the
> top-of-the-line Professional model in the Holdsworth lineup and its name
  
> was drawn from the way the seat stays attached behind the seat lug.
> This particular frameset has just been refinished by the Bob Jackson
> shop in the U.K. with orange enamel, while the seat tube bands and head
  
> tube are finished in Oxford Blue. Red enamel has been used to pinstripe
  
> the bands and head tube for added contrast. The original headbadge has
> been installed with proper rivets, while original transfers were fitted ,
> including the appropriate Reynolds 531 sticker. This frame also
> includes a very rare NOS Campy straight-levered quick-release seat post
> clamp, as originally specified by Holdsworth on this model. Pretty
> neat, huh? NOS Tange Levin headset just installed. Additional feature s
> include a Cinelli-style fork crown, Campagnolo dropouts, along with
> Prugnat lugs. NOS Campy old-style dropout screws have also just been
> fitted. Everything is fresh, never used and like new!!! No braze-ons.
   
> The seat tube measures 22 1/2 c-t, while the top tube measures 22 1/2
> c-c. Rear spacing is 126mm. Don't miss this opportunity to add this
> stunning example of British workmanship to your collection, as this
> frame will build up a stunning bike. (Eric - note, there is chainstay
  
> derailleur cable stop braze on)
>
> Below is anything new I have learned since the auction start along with
> most emails that have been sent (some have sent info but requested to
> remain in confidence):
>
> 1. After further research, this appears to be a Bob Jackson produced
> Merlin.
> The serial number is formatted as a Jackson, and not at all like a
> Holdsworth, even considering known variances. See current e-bay listing
  
> number 270319751498 for a BJ Merlin fastback. There should be a brazed
> on
> rear brake bridge, and the seat lug taper is different from the
> Holdsworth.
> The wheelbase is not correct for a Super Mistral, probably owing to the
  
> front fork. It has no eyelets as on rear, and may be fom a Holdsworth
> Pro.
> This is a very interesting and vintage British frame, but not what I
> believed it to be. I must respectfully retract my bid.
>
> 2. Hello Eric,
> Maybe I can help with the ID of your 'Holdsworth'
>
> My first 6 years framebuilding where with Bob Jackson [before I moved on
  
> to
> Woodrup's]
> It certainly does look like a BJ or Merlin.......the Merlin range as I
> recall where exactly the same as a BJ, but where supposed to be of a
> cheaper
> price range, even though we made them in the same manner as a BJ, or
  
> even a
> JRJ [John Robert Jackson]
>
> The rear brake bridge as quite a large center boss, which I remember,
  
> though
> I can't remember now if this was a later style to the smaller boss or
> the
> other way round.
>
> As for 'scalloping the rear stays'.........just a bit of careful use of
> a
> vice actually!
>
> Regarding the two numbers, I suspect 2259 is the actual frame # wheras
  
> 412
> is the # the frame shop stamped on renovations for the paint shop
> records,
> [ I hated this method as it made the frame appear second hand or
> certainly
> not a new one anymore!]
>
> Incidently having looked at the Merlin on eBay I remember brazing on
> those
> rings at the top of the down tube for bar controls, amazing there still
  
> on
> as they where prone to getting snapped off!
>
> Wonder why it was spayed up as a Holdsworth?
>
> Cheers
> Kevin Sayles. Bridgwater Somerset UK
>
> 3. I am the party that sold Eric the Holdsworth frame and I purchased
> the frame from a party in the U.K. I am very surprised to see it's
> pedigree questioned at this point. I used to be very active on the CR
> list, having been a member for 8+ years now, but have remained in th e
> background for the past 4 years. I've dealt with a lot of CR members
> and pride myself on my integrity. I believe Eric is jumping the gun
> here by "buying into" that this is not a Holds frameset. Here is my
> most recent email to Eric:
>
> Eric,
>
> I'm sorry, but I think this is bullshit, to be very candid. Man ,
> I've never done anything to mislead anyone on any items that I've sold,
  
> so to have this come from out of the past at such a late date is
> surprising. Just so you know, BJ does stamp all frames w/numbers that
  
> are brought in for refinishing.
>
> From my memory: This frame was labeled as a "Bob Addy", who was a n
> ex-Holds racing team member. Bob had his own store for a while and it is
  
> my understanding that he had Holds make up some frames to Super Mistral
> specs w/his name on them to be sold in his store. The frame had Bob
> Addy stickers w/a Holds headbadge when I acquired the frame in the U.K.
  
> It was sent directly to BJ for refinish.
>
> Now, who is playing the Holds expert w/info on wheelbase etc?
>
> Dave
>
> I stand by this frame and I can attest it was NOT a Bob Jackson or
  
> Merlin. That is just silly stuff. Perhaps a "Bob Addy" labeled frame
> is not exactly like the Super Mistrals? Anyway, I think a rush to
> judgement has occured here and Eric has been a bit too hasty in stopping
  
> his auction.
>
> Dave Patrick
> Chelsea, Michigan
>
> 4. From a common sense perspective, it doesn't even add up: I
> asked Bob Jackson to rebadge a BJ/Merlin frame as a Holdsworth? And
> then had it refinished as a Super Mistral? Huh? Not much of an
> economic incentive there. And I sincerely doubt that BJ would re-badge
> a frame if asked to do so, to be very honest, especially one of their
  
> own. It's a very strange argument going on here.
>
> Hope you are well and having a great holiday season. Best of luck
  
> for 2009.
>
> Dave Patrick
>
> 5. Yes, I agree, it doesn't make any sense. Plus, the only th ing
> that exists as marginal evidence are the serial numbers. All the rest
> about those features is blooey. All those dimensions and details are
> common Brit bike variables.
>
>
> 6. I bought a "Hill Cycles" Professional which is basically a W.F.
  
> Holdsworth Professional made for a bicycle shop in Philadelphia called
> "HILL CYCLES" .
> The bicycle is a bit large for me.It's a 25" frameset........I
> just can't pass up a good deal on an all original bicycle,when I come
> across one.I think you can relate to that.
>
> I did some research on Google Images and found some interesting
> results....... I forwarded on the link to you in a separate email, it
> was too long to copy and past.
> Basically what they were saying is one could request additional
> braze-ons........when I cycled in England it was not uncommon to see the
  
> English riders with a rack on a racing bicycle........So just having
> rear braze-ons alone doesn't mean anything one way or another.......your
  
> fork and frame numbers match,so that's a good sign.
>
> 1972 The only change to the 1971 spec was that the road Pro could
> have additional braze-ons if requested.
>
> 7. Hello Eric
> As there have been some doubts raised I am sure you are right to
> withdraw your frame from sale to give you time to investigate further.
> You may find it useful to compare your frame with a Merlin machine
> currently for sale on ebayUK , No 270319751498, which I think by the
  
> style and the lugs used is more likely to be mid 60s to mid 70s. I
> currently have in my possession three pre 1954 JRJs and a Merlin, and
> none of them bear any resemblance to the ebay Merlin. One of the common
> features of them all is that they have a three figure frame number
> stamped upside down on the top portion of the right hand dropout, but
> that practice may have ceased in later years, and certainly the numbers
  
> would have become four digit by mid 50s if they continued the same
> numbering sequence.
>
> Good luck with your research.
>
> 8. Eric,
> Bob Addy was a member of Hemel Hemstead C.C. Reg Collard
> Holdsworth frame builder lived in Hemel and he built several of Bobs
> frame at his home there, as well as a few at the shop in Putney. Tommy
  
> Quick T.J.Q. cycles also built for Bob and Holdsworth from about 1973
> onwards.
> Bob Addy rode several types of Holdsworth, the copper plated
> frames, Strada and the Team Professional.
> T J Q Cycles & Engineering
> Telephone: 020-8699-3367
> Address: 230 Stanstead Road, London, SE23 1DD
> With Bob's connections this is more likely a Holdsworth.
>
>
> 9. I am afraid I am going to set the cat amongst the pigeons as I
> don't
> think there's any doubt in my mind that this frame was built by
> Holdsworthy and was essentially the same spec as a Holdsworth
> Super
> Mistral Fastback. The Holdsworthy company built frames for many
> shops
> around the country (and especially so in the London area) and
> these
> frames often do not carry a Holdsworth frame number. I have had a
> couple
> of Ken Ryall frames which were Holdsworthy built but had a frame
> number
> specific to the shop whose transfer they carried.
>
> The way in which the fastback is carried out and the other details
  
> of
> this frame all shout Holdsworth to me, certainly not Bob Jackson.
  
> The
> problem seems to lie in the fact that it was originally sold as a
> Bob
> Addy and would have carried his transfers which may well be
> impossible
> to get. Whether the frame should have been repainted as a
> Holdsworth is
> another question which I would not attempt to answer. But this
> frame did
> I am certain come from the Holdsworthy factory. The question over
> the
> wheelbase is quite spurious as alternative geometries were offered
  
> by
> Holdsworth for this frame. I have seen several different designs
> for
> seatstay bridges from Holdsworth - in the case of fastback stays
> it is
> very difficult to put a curved bridge in as there is substantially
  
> less
> width so the idea that it should be curved is I think quite wrong.
>
> Hilary Stone, Bristol, United Kingdom
>
> 10. Hello Hilary,
> Seems this debate on whether it is or not a 'Holdsworth' is
> ongoing.
> It really is difficult to know for certain just exactly what it
> is, as it
> does resemble many type of 'frames of the day',
>
> However, I have to differ with your view on it 'not being a Bob
> Jackson'
> because of the fastback seat stays!........that method of
> 'fastback' is
> exactly how we used to do them on such models as the 'Messina',
> I've done
> enough of them to know.
>
> At the end of the day its a nice frame, and perhaps Eric should r e
> auction
> it as Holdsworth and be done with it! [and not be distracted by
> any future
> remarks as to its authenticity]
>
> Regards
> Kevin Sayles
> Bridgwater Somerset UK
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Sat, 27 Dec 2008 19:07:27 -0500
> From: Dale Brown <oroboyz@aol.com>
> To: <ktk1_7_0_2_8@yahoo.com>, <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>
> Subject: Re: [CR]Eddy Merckx and De Rosa frame relationship?
> Message-ID: <8CB3697676A6823-CB0-D9F@WEBMAIL-MA11.sysops.aol.com>
> In-Reply-To: <813065.13796.qm@web31406.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
> References: <813065.13796.qm@web31406.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
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> << I am curious if anyone else suspects that Eddy Merckx made the De Ros a frames in the 1980s? >>
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> Kevin, despite close resemblance, I do not think that was the case.
>
> We sold both of those bikes brands through those years and I think that E ddie & Ugo shared in the cost of making the lugs, Ugo set up the Merckx w orkshop and Eddie used the DeRosa aesthetic....
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> In close scrutiny, there are differences, the most significant is tha t of the joinery at the dropouts... DeRosa almost always had the extra refi ned "points" filed in the dropouts where they meet the stays. Later, Eddi e also embraced the Columbus pre-crimped stay ends rather than do any filin g at all at those junctures. Those and other nuances make me think that, in balance, DeRosa was always slightly more refined...
>
> That is just one man's opinion however....? :)
>
>
> Dale
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> Dale Brown
> cycles de ORO Bike Shop
> 1410 Mill Street
> Greensboro, North Carolina 27408 USA
> 336-274-5959
> http://cyclesdeoro.com
> http://www.classicrendezvous.com
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>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Kevin Kruger <ktk1_7_0_2_8@yahoo.com>
> To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
> Sent: Sat, 27 Dec 2008 6:20 pm
> Subject: [CR]Eddy Merckx and De Rosa frame relationship?
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> After seeing the photos of both Hilary's Eddy Merckx with De Rosa type co ns
> truction and his De Rosa with Eddy Merckx frame bits, I am curious if a nyon
> e else suspects that Eddy Merckx made the De Rosa frames in the 1980s???
>
> For some reason, I am under the impression that Merckx built the 80s De
   Ros
> a's due to strikingly similar frame contruction appearances.
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> Not only do the frame's look nearly identical to my eye, but their resp ecti
> ve catalogs bear very similar photo layouts.? Per an early Merckx catalog
> , "Ugo De Rosa came to Belgium and helped Eddy Merckx set up his ultra- mode
> rn workshops".
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> Check out the Merckx vs. De Rosa frame catalog pages at the following Bul gi
> er links:
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> http://bulgier.net/pics/bike/catalogs/eddy_merckx3/5.jpg
> http://bulgier.net/pics/bike/catalogs/de_rosa-86/3.jpg
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>
> Am I the only one under this impression?? Hope someone can set the record
> straight one way or the other for me.
>
> Regards,
> Kevin Kruger - Grantville, PA