I think Doug's attitude is typical of American framebuilders, i.e. since most of the cost of a frame is the labor, why use any but top tubing in a handmade frame? But the Italian buliders seem to have looked at it differently. Perhaps they had to make a less expensive model for amateur racers simply because the market for their top models was not sufficient to sustain the business. But they continued to produce very nearly the same level of detailing and finish either out of pride, or because their competition for the amateur market did. In this case, $20 saved by using Aelle probably did not reduce the price nearly enough to compensate for the lower price of the amateur frames, so they were simply making less profit on these machines. But $20, or however many Lire that was at the time, was better than nothing, and perhaps the more important objective was to differentiate the frames so as to support the price of the pro frames. I mean, let's suppose the pro frame was $500, while the amateur frame was $350. If they were perceived as identical, everyone might just buy the cheaper one. But by using Aelle in the amateur frame, one could make the pro frame buyer feel he was getting something significant for his extra money. From this point of view it might even have made sense to make all the frame from SL, but apply Aelle stcikers to the amateur ones simply to justify the price of the pro frames.
Regards,
Jerry Moos
Big Spring, Texas, USA
> From: Doug Fattic <fatticbicycles@qtm.net>
\r?\n> Subject: Re: [CR] Columbus Aelle tubing
\r?\n> To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
\r?\n> Date: Friday, January 16, 2009, 9:42 PM
\r?\n> I think there are a couple of things to keep in mind about
\r?\n> tubing
\r?\n> comparisons. The first is that the weight and riding style
\r?\n> of the rider has
\r?\n> a lot to do with whether they like the tubing or not.
\r?\n> 7/4/7 tubing with a
\r?\n> 1" top tube is perfect for me but not for somebody
\r?\n> that weighs 235 lbs
\r?\n> instead of my 135.
\r?\n>
\r?\n> Columbus SP and SL tubing was heat treated to some degree.
\r?\n> You can see it
\r?\n> on the surface of the tubes when you take them out of the
\r?\n> box. They varied
\r?\n> in color from golden to dark burnished blue or red tone.
\r?\n> Aelle was not heat
\r?\n> treated and just a normal gray color. I remember seeing a
\r?\n> video of Columbus
\r?\n> making tubing at the New York show probably sometime in the
\r?\n> 70's. After the
\r?\n> tubes had been butted, the words "SECRET PROCESS"
\r?\n> (like "pow", "bam" in a
\r?\n> Super Hero comedy book) blanked out whatever they
\r?\n> didn't want to show.
\r?\n> This, I understand, was the treating process.
\r?\n>
\r?\n> I never had any affection for it. I couldn't see
\r?\n> spending many hours custom
\r?\n> making a frame and then trying to save $20 on a set of
\r?\n> tubes. I've had
\r?\n> several sets of it in my shop but I think it came from when
\r?\n> I collected
\r?\n> stuff from Melton when they went under in Delaware, Ohio.
\r?\n>
\r?\n> Doug Fattic
\r?\n> Niles, Michigan USA
\r?\n>
\r?\n>
\r?\n> On 1/16/09 9:18 PM,
\r?\n> "classicrendezvous-request@bikelist.org"
\r?\n> <classicrendezvous-request@bikelist.org> wrote:
\r?\n>
\r?\n> > Message: 7
\r?\n> > Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2009 17:11:27 -0800
\r?\n> > From: Peter Brueggeman
\r?\n> <4peebee@peterbrueggeman.com>
\r?\n> > Subject: Re: [CR] Columbus Aelle tubing
\r?\n> > To: <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>
\r?\n> > Message-ID:
\r?\n> <000901c97840$88405f90$6401a8c0@AD.UCSD.EDU>
\r?\n> > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed;
\r?\n> charset="iso-8859-1";
\r?\n> > reply-type=original
\r?\n> >
\r?\n> > Kevin Ruberg asks "Anyone have any experience ...
\r?\n> with Aelle straight gauge
\r?\n> > tubing? ... I am wondering if it just a less
\r?\n> expensive tubeset to produce
\r?\n> > an economy frame ... or are there distinct differences
\r?\n> in say durability
\r?\n> > handling etc. ..."
\r?\n> >
\r?\n> > Bicycle Guide ran a story by Alan Cote entitled
\r?\n> "The Magnificent 7, the
\r?\n> > ultimate blind test?" using seven Mondonicos
\r?\n> built the same (frame, paint,
\r?\n> > and parts) with seven different Columbus tubesets. The
\r?\n> bikes were ridden,
\r?\n> > and the author concluded:
\r?\n> >
\r?\n> > "... The bike I liked best, which I also thought
\r?\n> was the stiffest, was ...
\r?\n> > the Neuron frame. The one I thought was the softest
\r?\n> was ... the SLX frame.
\r?\n> > The one that seemed to absorb vibrations best was ....
\r?\n> the Thron frame. I
\r?\n> > could perceive no real difference between ... Cromor
\r?\n> ... Brain ... Aelle...
\r?\n> > and... EL-OS. ... To be honest, I couldn't feel a
\r?\n> difference between an
\r?\n> > Aelle frame - with straight-gauge tubing and weighing
\r?\n> in at 4 pounds 12
\r?\n> > ounces - and an EL-OS frame - with double-butted,
\r?\n> oversize thin-wall
\r?\n> > Nivacrom tubing and only 4 pouncs of heft. A
\r?\n> conclusion which, if marketing
\r?\n> > literature is to be believed, doesn't make a whole
\r?\n> lot of sense. If the
\r?\n> > numbers on the bikes were switched around and I were
\r?\n> to test each bike
\r?\n> > again, my guess is that I'd come up with different
\r?\n> tubing preferences. I
\r?\n> > think my ride impressions were essentially random.
\r?\n> Does this mean you should
\r?\n> > pass on the expensive steel frame and buy a cheap one?
\r?\n> I don't know. The
\r?\n> > Aelle frame does weight 3/4 pound more than the EL-OS
\r?\n> frame, but the El-OS
\r?\n> > frame costs $815 more - close to three times as much
\r?\n> as the Aelle frame. I'm
\r?\n> > reminded of something Richard Sachs - one of the
\r?\n> finest custom framebuilders
\r?\n> > in the country - told me. Sachs said, "When
\r?\n> someone is buying a bike from
\r?\n> > me, they're buying my design choices and my
\r?\n> construction skills. I actually
\r?\n> > think material is the least consequential
\r?\n> choice." What do these seven
\r?\n> > Mondonicos say about bike performance and testing?
\r?\n> Perhaps more than
\r?\n> > anything, they illustrate that the personality of a
\r?\n> bike is determined much
\r?\n> > more by fit, frame geometry and components than by
\r?\n> what kind of tubing lies
\r?\n> > under the paint."
\r?\n> >
\r?\n> > ................
\r?\n> > Peter Brueggeman
\r?\n> > La Jolla California USA
\r?\n> > 4peebee(at)peterbrueggeman.com