Sounds. Like the old front clangers,listen for the chap?you are climbing with, when you hear the clang? JUMP! (IF YOU HAVE ANYTHING LEFT) Worked everytime. Also, On a cold damp English morn, the ONLY?sound of Dunlop#3s Pumped till they ping!?HUMMING along in a 25mile TT. OH to be YOUNG again! Cheers John Crump OldmemoriesBrit. Parker. Co USA
-----Original Message----- From: classicrendezvous-request@bikelist.org To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org Sent: Wed, 28 Jan 2009 10:39 am Subject: Classicrendezvous Digest, Vol 73, Issue 132
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Today's Topics:
1. Re: Ideale Alloy Rail saddles (Marc St. Martin) 2. Re: double-check your shipping prices, Was: Confente levers?... (FujiFish1@aol.com) 3. Re: Confente levers ??????? (Schmid) 4. Re: The Sound of Old Freewheels (Phil Brown) 5. Re: Confente levers ??????? (Kurt Sperry) 6. Non-indexed verus off topic indexed (Charles Nighbor) 7. Re: Confente levers ??????? (K.R. Bennett) 8. Re: cycle stalking (Linwood Hines) 9. Re: Confente levers ??????? (Dale Brown) 10. Re: The sound of old freewheels. (billydavid13@comcast.net) 11. Re: quiet FWs, cycle stalking (Dale B. Phelps) 12. Re: Ideale Alloy Rail saddles (Tony Colegrave) 13. Re: The sound of old freewheels. (Dr. Paul Williams)
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Message: 1 Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2009 08:12:42 -0800 From: "Marc St. Martin" <marc.stmartin@earthlink.net> Subject: Re: [CR] Ideale Alloy Rail saddles To: <jerrymoos@sbcglobal.net>, <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>, <edvintage63@aol.com> Message-ID: <3233876.1233159162540.JavaMail.root@mswamui-billy.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Hi Jerry,
Don't know the whys and wherefors regarding the rivets; however, I will say that my Jack Taylor-mounted aluminum railed Ideale is the best riding, most comfortable saddle I own. Of course what the Brothers built helps a bit too ;^)
Marc St. Martin Livermore, CA USA
-----Original Message-----
>From: Jerome
& Elizabeth Moos <jerrymoos@sbcglobal.net>
>Sent: Jan 28, 2009 6:52 AM
>To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org, edvintage63@aol.com
>Subject: [CR] Ideale Alloy Rail saddles
>
>Just received yesterday from a French eBay seller the first alloy-railed Ideale
saddle I've ever owned. This one was not cheap, but a little more reasonable
than some examples have gone for of late. I blame Jan Heine in part for the
recent escalation of alloy Ideale prices. His wonderful book The Golden Age of
Handbuilt Bicycles, although not exactly on the New York Times Best Seller list,
I think has enormous influence in collector circles, and it seems about half the
bikes pictured have alloy railed Ideale saddles. I think this has spurred
interest in those saddles and driven up the price.
>
>This one was slightly more than $250 and certainly not NOS - the stampings on
the side are worn down so far ot is hard to tell the model number, which is
claimed to be a model 90, which is consistent with other details. But the Rebour
stamp on the top rear is still very clear, and the saddle is still supple,with
no cracking and retains its original shape quite nicely.
>
>I have a question for those who have used these extensively. How is the ride?
Some have said that the ride is very harsh and uncomfortable due to what is
essentially an I-beam undercarriage. If so, I'd think these would be very
tiring on a long event. Now I get the impression that the Technical Trials and
some other similar events may have been of moderate length, but bikes like those
pictured in Jan's book were also extensively used in the long events we usually
associate with randonneuring, culminating in PBP. I know at least a couple of
CR members have done PBP and probably a lot more have done randonneur events of
several hundred Km. Are these alloy rail saddles very tiring in those long
events? Does anyone feel compelled to switch to steel rail saddles for long
distances?
>
>One other question I've long pondered but never asked. I note this model 90
has copper rivets for all but the two rivets on either side of the nose, which
appear to be steel, although the rivet on top of the nose is copper like those
in the cantle plate. I believe every other high end Ideale I've seen is the
same way - all copper except on either side of the nose. Why did Ideale do
this? I doubt they were trying to save a couple of Francs (espeically the old
Francs worth only a few US cents) on their top models. Did they judge that the
rivets on either side of the nose needed to be stronger than the others?
Presumably steel ones would be stronger than copper. If this was the reason,
Brooks seem not to have shared their concern.
>
>Regards,
>
>Jerry Moos
>Big Spring, Texas, USA
>_______________________________________________
------------------------------
Message: 2 Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2009 11:26:02 -0500 From: <FujiFish1@aol.com> Subject: Re: [CR] double-check your shipping prices, Was: Confente levers?... To: <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org> Message-ID: <cb3.4c9a3548.36b1e11a@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
No big deal. Shipping prices are irrelevant, really. Just decide how much you are willing to pay for an item, delivered to your door. Then subtract the seller's shipping price, and bid. It all works out the same in the end. And for those who are scared away by the quoted shipping ... all the better for those who perform the math work cited above.
Ciao, Mark Agree Southfield MI USA ~ ~ ~
Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2009 09:45:57 -0600 From: accobra <accobra@peoplepc.com> Subject: Re: [CR] Confente levers ??????? To: Wilson Paul <paul@wilsondesigns.net>,
Pauli, if this is your auction (Temecula, CA?), please double-check your shipping prices. I just sent an eBay question about the derailleur also listed. These levers are something I could have an interest in too but the $15.35 listed shipping (plus insurance!) within the USA is way off the map. Lightweight lever handles can be mailed via 1st class mail (under 1 lb.) for about $3.25 with delivery confirmation. Or, if you really want to send via Priority Mail and use the free boxes the postal service provides (I like to use those too...) then you can still send for $5.60. Add a dollar or two for "packing" if need be, but please, re-think the $15.35 shipping prices. I think you are probably scaring off some potential customers. Thanks & good luck!
Mark Winkelman
Dallas, Texas USA
> Could these be Confente levers??
>
> eBay 260351966375
>
> Thanks!!!!!
>
> Pauli
> Paul Wilson 26077 Arjuna Avenue, Temecula, California 92590, USA
> http://www.wilsondesigns.net 951-587-3632
**************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1215855013x1201028747/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072%26hmpgID=62%26bcd=De cemailfooterNO62)
------------------------------
Message: 3 Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2009 17:29:44 +0100 From: Schmid <schmidi@gaponline.de> Subject: Re: [CR] Confente levers ??????? To: 'Wilson Paul' <paul@wilsondesigns.net>, <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org> Message-ID: <6A9704154AB54A0B83E031608E76B21E@Twinhead> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
No way, to me, those look like Colnago levers. I have seen this style of panto on several Colnagos. Ragards
Michael Schmid Oberammergau Germany Tel.: +49 8821 798790 Fax.:+49 8821 798791 mail: schmid@zunterer.com http://www.zunterer.com
-----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- Von: classicrendezvous-bounces@bikelist.org [mailto:classicrendezvous-bounces@bikelist.org ] Im Auftrag von Dr. Paul J. Wilson Gesendet: Mittwoch, 28. Januar 2009 16:27 An: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org Betreff: [CR] Confente levers ???????
Could these be Confente levers??
eBay 260351966375
Thanks!!!!!
Pauli Paul Wilson 26077 Arjuna Avenue, Temecula, California 92590, USA http://www.wilsondesigns.net 951-587-3632
_______________________________________________
------------------------------
Message: 4 Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2009 08:38:51 -0800 From: Phil Brown <philcycles@sbcglobal.net> Subject: Re: [CR] The Sound of Old Freewheels To: c r <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org> Message-ID: <29b013f47d4ccc6d6bd611a1a0e1a5ec@sbcglobal.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"; format=flowed
For those of you wondering how I make 'em quiet the answer is Phil Wood Oil, which, for the cheapskates among us, is, I believe, a Mobil chain saw bar oil. Phil Brown Chilly but warming up in Berkeley, Calif.
------------------------------
Message: 5 Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2009 08:39:38 -0800 From: Kurt Sperry <haxixe@gmail.com> Subject: Re: [CR] Confente levers ??????? To: Schmid <schmidi@gaponline.de> Cc: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org Message-ID: <75d04b480901280839r664ba15bp651f34f76c08eb1e@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"
A very similar style- with a club symbol inside the C- would be Colnago. I've never heard of Colnago levers with a spade symbol inside the C.
Kurt Sperry Bellingham, Washington USA
2009/1/28 Schmid <schmidi@gaponline.de>:
> No way, to me, those look like Colnago levers. I have seen this style of
> panto on several Colnagos.
> Ragards
>
>
>
> Michael Schmid
> Oberammergau
> Germany
------------------------------
Message: 6 Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2009 08:50:56 -0800 From: Charles Nighbor <cnighbor1@comcast.net> Sub ject: [CR] Non-indexed verus off topic indexed To: <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org> Message-ID: <461D9AB8D4174B79900999539CA0ACA0@gatewayan2blld> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Kurt Sperry emailed "A perfectly executed shift- decisive, fast, with perfect overshift and return technique- on Nuovo Record rear is about as sweet as there is for me. On a good day I can snap them off one after another. Fatigue can make it tough though.
Kurt Sperry Bellingham, Washington USA''
I agree with Kurt on this point,''On a good day I can snap them off one after another. Fatigue can make it tough though.'' I noticed that when touring on a loaded bicycle the same problem, excellent shifting till I got tried and than riding in same gears to reduce number of times I shifted, has shifts became shower and less accurate. I ride both indexed and non-indexed and prefer indexed (off topic) on longer rides requiring a lot of shifting. But setting up indexing not always and easy task.
Charles Nighbor Walnut Creek, CA USA
------------------------------
Message: 7 Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2009 16:52:05 +0000 From: "K.R. Bennett" <kerriganbennett@comcast.net> Subject: Re: [CR] Confente levers ??????? To: <Classicrendezvous@bikelist.org> Message-ID: <012820091652.10673.49808D35000A42B5000029B122135753339B9B0A02020A0D020E09079D9D0A05@comcast.net>
Content-Type: text/plain
Yes, those levers are a fitting epilogue to the recent discussion of pantographing authenticity, reproductions, etc. Although they are the perfect finishing touch for my extremely rare Counterfeinte.
And Mark, seems like that shipping charge shouldn't trouble you, if the opening bid is only $5. Just factor it into your bidding. I own a calculator for this purpose that I'd be happy to sell you. Price is only $100 . . . but shipping is free!
Kerrigan Bennett Pleasant Hill, CA USA
Archive-URL: http://search.b ikelist.org/getmsg.asp?Filename=classicrendezvous.10901.1487.eml Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2009 08:39:38 -0800 From: Kurt Sperry <haxixe(AT)gmail.com> Subject: Re: [CR] Confente levers ???????
A very similar style- with a club symbol inside the C- would be Colnago. I've never heard of Colnago levers with a spade symbol inside the C.
Kurt Sperry Bellingham, Washington USA
2009/1/28 Schmid <schmidi(AT)gaponline.de>:
> No way, to me, those look like Colnago levers. I have seen this style of
> panto on several Colnagos.
> Ragards
>
>
>
> Michael Schmid
> Oberammergau
> Germany
_______________________________________________
------------------------------
Message: 8 Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2009 12:02:09 -0500 From: Linwood Hines <lshines@comcast.net> Subject: Re: [CR] cycle stalking To: <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org> Message-ID: <81B65CF924BC496090A936C0B42B7B39@dell06> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original
Now, THIS IDEA I like! Was it Merckx that did same - heck, I can't rem what race or film it was on - and later LA to Jan.....? I like sneaky cycling, and yes, good freewheels enabled this! Possibly only clean, with 'ghost' lube (might have been Phil Tenacious - secret weapon - Oil). Linwood Hines Chesterfield, VA Rain and Rainy ice - no I'm not riding.
Subject: Re: [CR] The Sound of Old Freewheels To: Phil Brown <philcycles@sbcglobal.net>, c r <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org> Message-ID: <F8D0B1E3BAA0461693B214C0FA769E86@D8XCLL51> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response
Phil's got it right. The best sound is no sound. Then when you come up on somebody on the road, they won't know you're there. That way you can sleighride and when they jolt to awareness that you're sittin' on, wheth er its a block or a mile+ tell 'em you've been on for miles and really rattle their cage. The trick is to shift at the same time, so they don't hear it, stay just far enough back at lights, etc., and be VERY careful, 'cause you must be able to compensate for any unexpected or dumb move they make so as not to get knocked down. Ahhh - the science of cycle stalking! Fun to play on the road while being serious. Ted Ernst Palos Verdes Estates CA USA
------------------------------
Message: 9 Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2009 12:03:20 -0500 From: Dale Brown <oroboyz@aol.com> Subject: Re: [CR] Confente levers ??????? To: <schmidi@gaponline.de>, <paul@wilsondesigns.net>, <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org> Message-ID: <8CB4F817489457A-130C-91C@MBLK-M39.sysops.aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
<< No way, to me, those look like Colnago levers. I have seen this style of panto on several Colnagos. >>
No flower though, but instead a spade, so I (educated) guess COLNER.
Dale Brown Greensboro, North Carolina USA
-----Original Message----- From: Schmid <schmidi@gaponline.de> To: 'Wilson Paul' <paul@wilsondesigns.net>; classicrendezvous@bikelist.org Sent: Wed, 28 Jan 2009 11:29 am Subject: Re: [CR] Confente levers ???????
No way, to me, those look like Colnago levers. I have seen this style of panto on several Colnagos. Ragards
Michael Schmid Oberammergau Germany Tel.: +49 8821 798790 Fax.:+49 8821 798791 mail: schmid@zunterer.com http://www.zunterer.com
-----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- Von: classicrendezvous-bounces@bikelist.org [mailto:classicrendezvous-bounces@bikelist.org] Im Auftrag von Dr. Paul J. Wilson Gesendet: Mittwoch, 28. Januar 2009 16:27 An: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org Betreff: [CR] Confente levers ???????
Could these be Confente levers??
eBay 260351966375
Thanks!!!!!
Pauli Paul Wilson 26077 Arjuna Avenue, Temecula, California 92590, USA http://www.wilsondesigns.net 951-587-3632
_______________________________________________
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http://www.bikelist.org/
------------------------------
Message: 10 Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2009 17:16:55 +0000 From: <billydavid13@comcast.net> Subject: Re: [CR] The sound of old freewheels. To: <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org> Message-ID: <551840494.778251233163015425.JavaMail.root@sz0035a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Hi all. List members are probably familiar w/ the story of the freewheel bodies for Regina Extras and Oros coming down the same conveyor belt where an inspector would hold them up to his/her ear. The smooth sounding ones went into the bin destined to receive the gold Oro cogs and the rough one into the Extra bin. I'm sure many of the British members and Raleigh owners remember the sound of a TDC block freewheeling in both directions after the pawl "springs" broke. This sound was rather nuanced and often accompanied by cursing. Ah! Memories! Billy Ketchum; Chicago, IL; USA.
------------------------------
Message: 11 Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2009 09:24:46 -0800 From: "Dale B. Phelps" <losgatos_dale@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [CR] quiet FWs, cycle stalking To: <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org> Message-ID: <307813.43559.qm@web38107.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
We'd just plop the block in a can of motor oil overnight, then set it somew here on it's big-gear flat for excess to drain.One tx like this was good fo r years. Liter ally. Sometimes though they'd be too viscous inside?and the pawls wouldn't pawl! Solution for that was more time laying flat, and in s unlight (and summer) would help. ? f.w.i.w. ? Dale Phelps Montagna lunga Colorado?=0A=0A=0A
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Message: 12 Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2009 17:30:10 +0000 From: Tony Colegrave <tony_colegrave@hotmail.com> Subject: Re: [CR] Ideale Alloy Rail saddles To: <jerrymoos@sbcglobal.net>, <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org> Message-ID: <BAY129-W22E9BB966D87390463777BFEC80@phx.gbl> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
I think that we've been down this road before, Jerry. In my experience
, the only alloy-railed Ideales that could be described as reasonably com
fortable over fairly long distances are those later Model 90s with spring-l
oaded noses. Not all the '90s' have those springs (the majority don't, I'
d suggest), and yours appears to be one of those that doesn't, although
, if the leather has stretched to a degree, it might be possible to 'im
provise' such an arrangement?
Ideale seem to have come late to the realisation that there was a need f
or some sort of suspension in these girder-type frames - Brooks introduced
it in their first attempt at such frames, in the early 'thirties, but s
oon abandoned it and 'gave up' on girder frames altogether pretty quickly.
I don't think that Mansfield ever produced a sprung girder frame.
I've always imagined that Ideale used steel rivets on either side of the
nose of most of their saddles for the good practical reason that they are
very much easier to 'set' than copper ones, when working at the sort of a
ngle presented by most nosepieces; on many of the wire-railed Ideales (an
d some of the earlier alloy-railed ones, as well) there is a mixture of s
teel/copper rivets into the cantle-plate - most usually the steel rivets ar
e in positions to which d
irect access 'inside' the cantle is hampered by th
e rails.
Tony Colegrave, Northiam, East Sussex, U.K.
> Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2009 06:52:02 -0800
> From: jerrymoos@sbcglobal.net
> To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org; edvintage63@aol.com
> Subject: [CR] Ideale Alloy Rail saddles
>
> Just received yesterday from a French eBay seller the first alloy-railed
Ideale saddle I've ever owned. This one was not cheap, but a little more
reasonable than some examples have gone for of late. I blame Jan Heine in
part for the recent escalation of alloy Ideale prices. His wonderful book
The Golden Age of Handbuilt Bicycles, although not exactly on the New Yo
rk Times Best Seller list, I think has enormous influence in collector ci
rcles, and it seems about half the bikes pictured have alloy railed Ideal
e saddles. I think this has spurred interest in those saddles and driven u
p the price.
>
> This one was slightly more than $250 and certainly not NOS - the stamping
s on the side are worn down so far ot is hard to tell the model number, w
hich is claimed to be a model 90, which is consistent with other details.
But the Rebour stamp on the top rear is still very clear, and the saddle
is still supple,with no cracking and retains its original shape quite ni
cely.
>
> I have a question for those who have used these extensively. How is the
ride? Some have said that the ride is very harsh and uncomfortable due to
what is essentially an I-beam undercarriage. If so, I'd think these woul
d be very tiring on a long event. Now I get the impression that the Techni
cal Trials and some other similar events may have been of moderate length
, but bikes like those pictured in Jan's book were also extensively used
in the long events we usually associate with randonneuring, culminating i
n PBP. I know at least a couple of CR members have done PBP and probably a
lot more have done randonneur events of several hundred Km. Are these all
oy rail saddles very tiring in those long events? Does anyone feel compell
ed to switch to
steel rail saddles for long distances?
>
> One other question I've long pondered but never asked. I note this model
90 has copper rivets for all but the two rivets on either side of the nose
, which appear to be steel, although the rivet on top of the nose is co
pper like those in the cantle plate. I believe every other high end Ideale
I've seen is the same way - all copper except on either side of the nose.
Why did Ideale do this? I doubt they were trying to save a couple of Fran
cs (espeically the old Francs worth only a few US cents) on their top model
s. Did they judge that the rivets on either side of the nose needed to be s
tronger than the others? Presumably steel ones would be stronger than copp
er. If this was the reason, Brooks seem not to have shared their concern
.
>
> Regards,
>
> Jerry Moos
> Big Spring, Texas, USA
> _______________________________________________
> Classicrendezvous mailing list
> Classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
> http://www.bikelist.org/
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Message: 13 Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2009 12:39:21 -0500 From: "Dr. Paul Williams" <castell5@sympatico.ca> Subject: Re: [CR] The sound of old freewheels. To: Classic Rendezvous <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org> Message-ID: <BLU0-SMTP78815F9FD308CD34675628E4C80@phx.gbl> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original
I used to be obsessive about noise from the drivetrain and took great delight in getting the freewheel (a Maillard - the kit kind with the interchangeable cogs) as silent as possible (Phil's Tenacious Oil). I also used to strip my one and only bike at the time down to the bearings on a regular basis - especially if t he irritating ticks and grinds started to be heard. I haven't the time for that any longer, although I must admit that I enjoy riding up in silent mode behind someone on a modern, plastic bike with all of its clicks and whirs. The look of surprise is always fun.
Paul Williams, Ottawa, ON, Canada
Paul B. Williams, BAH (Laurier), MPhil (Cardiff, Wales), PhD (Queen's) Dept. of Geography and Environmental Studies, Carleton University, castell5@sympatico.ca paul_williams@carleton.ca
------------------------------
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End of Classicrendezvous Digest, Vol 73, Issue 132 **************************************************
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