Re: [CR] Classicrendezvous Digest, Vol 73, Issue 137

(Example: Racing)

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Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2009 10:53:48 -0500
In-Reply-To:
From: <crumpy6204@aol.com>
Subject: Re: [CR] Classicrendezvous Digest, Vol 73, Issue 137


I have listed on Ebay my 2005 Mercian Bike for BIN$1950.00 any list member interested I will pay the shipping for them if buyer. Cheers John Crump OldproblywontsellBrit. Parker. Co USA

-----Original Message----- From: classicrendezvous-request@bikelist.org To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org Sent: Wed, 28 Jan 2009 11:03 pm Subject: Classicrendezvous Digest, Vol 73, Issue 137

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Today's Topics:

1. Re: Ideale Alloy Rail saddles (Jerome & Elizabeth Moos) 2. Re: barend control problems (Barb and Dan Artley) 3. Modern detailing? (David Bean) 4. Re: Modern detailing? (Jeff Slotkin) 5. 1967 60cm Frejus on local (Chicago) Craigslist (Alex Schultz) 6. Re: Keirin (track design) Questions (Fred Rednor) 7. Campy Nuovo Record Rear Derailleur Assembly Question (Bill Kloos) 8. Re: Modern detailing? (devotion finesse) 9. Re: double-check your shipping prices, Was: Confente levers?... (John Wood) 10. Re: Modern detailing? (Pacific Coast Cycles)

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Message: 1 Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2009 18:19:45 -0800 From: Jerome & Elizabeth Moos <jerrymoos@sbcglobal.net> Subject: Re: [CR] Ideale Alloy Rail saddles To: "Marc St. Martin" <marc.stmartin@earthlink.net>, <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>, <edvintage63@aol.com>, Jan Heine <heine94@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <951332.77322.qm@web82201.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

Thanks, Jan, I think your comments indicate that Tony Colegrave's opinion a bout the harshness of these saddle was agreed with by a number of notable r iders, although we have certainly heard dissenting opinions on CR. But I t hink, thanks to the Golden Age of Handbuilt Bicycles, that a vintage collec tion is now somewhat incomplete without at least one of these saddles. My riding is now quite regular, but the trips are sh ort, so I may find the all oy Ideale quite suitable, we shall see. But I think it is clear that the T i railed Brooks are both lighter and for most riders more comfortable than alloy Ideales, although they are not really classic, although it can be arg ued they are KOF. And the actual "street" price of a Ti Brooks, as opposed to list price, is now usually less than an alloy Ideale. The Ti B17 that arrived today was bought for $200, NOS, but with no box, while the clearly used alloy mod 90 was about $250, which was maybe at the low end of the range for such saddles.

Actually I think this is exactly sort of discussion that takes place regula rly in Bicycle Quaterly, inovative technology from the classic era as well as classic style technology from the modern era. Much of what makes me a s atisfied subscriber.

Regards,

Jerry Moos


--- On Wed, 1/28/09, Jan Heine wrote:


> From: Jan Heine <heine94@earthlink.net>
> Subject: Re: [CR] Ideale Alloy Rail saddles
> To: "Marc St. Martin" <marc.stmartin@earthlink.net>, jerrymoos@sbcglobal. net, classicrendezvous@bikelist.org, edvintage63@aol.com
> Date: Wednesday, January 28, 2009, 11:57 AM
> At 8:12 AM -0800 1/28/09, Marc St. Martin wrote:
>
> > >I have a question for those who have used these
> extensively. How is the ride? Some have said that the ride
> is very harsh and uncomfortable due to what is essentially
> an I-beam undercarriage. If so, I'd think these would
> be very tiring on a long event.
>
> I have only used one alloy saddle, a 1952 Model 57, for any
> length of time, when I rode a 1952 Rene Herse in a 300 km
> brevet. After 10 hours of non-stop riding, it did seem less
> comfortable than the Brooks saddles (steel rails) from the
> same era that I have used on other bikes. Whether it is the
> leather or the undercarriage is hard to say.
>
> Several riders on the Herse team switched from Ideale with
> aluminum frames to steel-framed Brooks in the 1950s in the
> Poly de Chanteloup. They all claim the Brooks was more
> comfortable, but the Brooks saddles also had a reputation
> for better leather.
>
>
> > Now I get the impression that the Technical Trials and
> some other similar events may have been of moderate length,
>
> The Technical Trials gave so many bonus points for light
> weight that makers chose the lightest, not the most
> comfortable saddles. Paulette Porthault, who rode for Herse
> in the 1946 trials, reports her saddle felt as if it was
> made from wood.
>
> > but bikes like those pictured in Jan's book were
> also extensively used in the long events we usually
> associate with randonneuring, culminating in PBP.
>
> Among the riders above are Lucien Detee and Gilbert Bulte,
> who came first (tied with another tandem) in
> Paris-Brest-Paris 1956. However, they reported terrible
> saddle problems. Their tandem is shown in our latest book
> "The Competition Bicycle."
>
> When you look at other PBP bikes, whether from 1948
>
> http://www.vintagebicyclepress.com/rebour.html
>
> or Macaudi?re's bike from 1966 in "The Golden Age
> of Handbuilt Bicycles," you see steel-railed Brooks
> saddles on the bikes of the fastest riders.
>
> > I know at least a couple of CR members have done PBP
> and probably a lot more have done randonneur events of
> several hundred Km. Are these alloy rail saddles very
> tiring in those long events? Does anyone feel compelled to
> switch to steel rail saddles for long distances?
>
> I agree with the old randonneurs, and I would pick a steel
> (or ti) railed saddle for long rides.
>
> Jan Heine
> Editor
> Bicycle Quarterly
> 140 Lakeside Ave #C
> Seattle WA 98122
> http://www.vintagebicyclepress.com

------------------------------

Message: 2 Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2009 22:02:25 -0500 From: Barb and Dan Artley <hydelake@verizon.net> Subject: Re: [CR] barend control problems To: Classic Rendezvous <Classicrendezvous@bikelist.org> Message-ID: <000b01c981be$03bcbd40$2f01a8c0@danbarbpc> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

I've also had experience with this Tom. Maintaining them for years, I've found that when adjusting tension (Campy T wrench and a short flat screwdriver on the road), there's a tendancy to just tighten the lock nut a bit more rather than loosen, adjust the screw and re-tighten. Both work for getting the right amount of tension to the shifter, but I guess I've tightened the locknut just a bit too much myself. The barrel that the screw goes into must deform it's threads a bit making it hard to turn, not sure goop will change that. I've just muscled it anyway, and have a couple extra shifters. Once it's out, run the adjusting screw into and out of the unit a bit both ways to loosen it up. I've even tried another screw to chase the threads with, which at least psychologically seemed to work. The screw is hardened, the piece inside doesn't seem to be, and it never seems to loosen up completely. The shifters will probably stay hard to tighten for the rest of their useful lives.

Slather the whole thing in grease when putting it back together and it should work fine. It's a pain to have to take them completely apart just to change a cable. The durn things really are not as easy to work on as Suntours or Shimano, but work far better to me, just buttery smooth when adjusted right. Line up the flats on the openings of the washers with the lever and slip them in without changing the rotation of the lever while keeping the lever parallel with the vertical flat of the opening. Then lining up the flat of the inside piece when installing it, I usually get it in either all the way or in a bit. It seems to pop in when you screw in the tightening screw. I try to adjust them so loose that the rear derailleur will just hold it in the biggest cog, makes shifting so sweet. That loose, you may have to tighten them just a tad when the cold weather seems to loosen them up just that much.

I've worried about the inner piece distorting/disintegrating myself and have gotten extra shifters when I could. I have at least one that's been cannibalized. T he plastic expander also doesn't seem to hold up completely. Years ago, I had a set of the expanders turn to powder and break apart, but the others seem to be holding up fine.

Good luck and hope your ride makes it across country one more time.

Happy trails, See you in Westminster?

Dan Artley in Parkton, Maryland USA

Archive-URL: http://search.bikelist.org/getmsg.asp?Filename=classicrendezvous.10901. 1519.eml Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2009 13:46:45 -0800 From: Tom Hayes <hayesbikes(AT)gmail.com> Subject: [CR] barend control problems

Anyone have experience solving the following problem with NR Campagnolo barend shifters: after removing the locknut, the screw will turn about twice before it tightens so that to continure turning it will damage the slot in the screw head, thereby making it even more difficult to turn. I have an appropriate sized screwdriver too. I was able to get one off, but the other is far more stubborn than the first. I have soaked it in "Goop" to no avail. And the one that I did remove, even out of the handlebars, it is difficult to turn, and does not show any damaged threads on the screw or the thingie that it screws into.

Help please.

Thank you.

Tom Hayes Chagrin Falls, Ohio "Eleven inches of snow today" USA

------------------------------

Message: 3 Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2009 22:32:20 -0500 From: David Bean <beandk@rcn.com> Subject: [CR] Modern detailing? To: "CR List (E-mail)" <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org> Message-ID: <001b01c981c2$319d7110$6d7ba8c0@dkbwin2k> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

On Boston CL, there's a quite new very OT Masi with the track frame end featured in a photo. I know Masi is not the shop it once was, but it looks like hell. Is this typical of how new Italian steel frames are finished?

http://boston.craigslist.org/gbs/bik/1011954887.html

David Bean Arlington, MA USA beandk at are-see-enn dot com

------------------ ------------

Message: 4 Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2009 23:34:17 -0500 From: Jeff Slotkin <jeffslotkin@comcast.net> Subject: Re: [CR] Modern detailing? To: <beandk@rcn.com> Cc: "CR List \(E-mail\)" <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org> Message-ID: <0A98FFE7-163F-4036-83CF-ECC981B19BD8@comcast.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"; format=flowed; delsp=yes

That's a Chinese spec frame, Italian in name only. See "Fuji" "Mercier", "M'becane" "Dawes" "Schwinn," etc, etc. for other examples of how the mighty (and the pretty good) have fallen into similar stuff.

Jeff Slotkin usually at... The Bicycle Shoppe Charleton, SC

On Jan 28, 2009, at 10:32 PM, David Bean wrote:
> On Boston CL, there's a quite new very OT Masi with the track frame
> end
> featured in a photo. I know Masi is not the shop it once was, but
> it looks
> like hell. Is this typical of how new Italian steel frames are
> finished?
>
> http://boston.craigslist.org/gbs/bik/1011954887.html
>
> David Bean
> Arlington, MA USA
> beandk at are-see-enn dot com
>
> _______________________________________________

------------------------------

Message: 5 Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2009 20:40:29 -0800 From: Alex Schultz <toolsparabolix@yahoo.com> Subject: [CR] 1967 60cm Frejus on local (Chicago) Craigslist To: CR <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org> Message-ID: <315813.66949.qm@web52010.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Courtesy of my friend and fellow lister Billy Ketchum. I tried offering Billy 20 bucks for the frameset...he didn't think it was a fair deal for him. The pictures on Craigslist don't do the bike justice. It really is gorgeous, though as he mentions in the ad, the chrome isn't as nice as the paint, especially the spot on top of the fork crown. Billy isn't very tech savvy (sorry) but I could take some higher resolution pictures for the list.

http://chicago.craigslist.org/chc/bik/101 2069243.html

quite sick of the winter (with 2 months left...) in Chicago, IL, Alex Schultz

------------------------------

Message: 6 Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2009 20:42:40 -0800 From: Fred Rednor <fred_rednor@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [CR] Keirin (track design) Questions To: Dave Porter <frogeye@porterscustom.com> Cc: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org Message-ID: <148941.56709.qm@web34204.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Dave,

I actually watched your video the other day and was truly impressed. That is, I was impressed both by the quality of the film and by your efforts to bring Keirin to the USA. I even read the Colloquy section of your Web site. Of course that made me wonder about the success of your efforts since the transcripts in that Web page date from 1992.

Now... I have never seen a Japanese Keirin race in person, but I've watched _lots_ of film, so I'm familiar with the starts, and the finishes of these races. I understand that they start side-by-side, using mechanical holders, and then get in position behind the pacer.

But there is a very strict set of rules relating to when riders can attack. Australian pro racer Ben Kersten explains it better than I. It's worth reading these two diary entries from him: http://www.cyclingnews.com/riders/2007/diaries/benk/?id=benk0704 http://www.cyclingnews.com/riders/2007/diaries/benk/?id=benk0705

If you watch enough Japanese Keirin video, more often that not you will see a group of 3 riders drop back and then attack in unison from about 500 meters out. To me, that appears to be the Senko/Makuri/Oikomi grouping that Kersten describes.

Actually, it's worth reading all his diary entries. This excerpt from his first entry is interesting:
            "The first step was to order a steel bike from Look France, since
             all carbon fibre is banned... Look does not m ake nor sell steel
             anymore so they specially made some bikes for Mickael Bourgain
             and me, being their only sponsored riders here..." Apparently, the International racers can bring their own bikes, although these are still subjected to the same mechanical stress testing machine that is used for scrutinizing all Keirin bikes.
      Best regards,
      Fred Rednor - Arlington, Virginia (USA)


--- On Wed, 1/28/09, Dave Porter wrote:


> Fred,
> If you have 10 minutes to watch http://abqkeirin.com/ the
> video has
> several Japanese Keirins at the end. I've read the JKA
> rules and there is
> nothing about parallel pace lines that I can find. In fact
> they don't even
> start as a group and they are paced by another rider rather
> than a
> motorcycle. Much cleaner and quieter.. Very exciting to
> watch. Hope to have
> it here in NM before too long..
> DaveP
>
> frogeye@porterscustom.com
>
> Porter Customs 2909 Arno NE
> Albuquerque, NM USA 87107
> 505-352-1378
> 1954 BN2 1959 AN5
> Porter Custom Bicycles
>
> cars:
> http://www.britishcarforum.com/portercustoms.html
> gallery:
> http://picasaweb.google.com/porterscustombicycles/PorterCustomBicyclesStuff
>
> blog: http://porterbikes.com/
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: classicrendezvous-bounces@bikelist.org
> [mailto:classicrendezvous-bounces@bikelist.org] On Behalf
> Of Fred Rednor
> Sent: Wednesday, January 28, 2009 12:46 PM
> To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
> Subject: Re: [CR] Keirin (track design) Questions
>
> A few last words (from me anyway) on Keirin before we
> declare it fully off
> topic...
> Although, note that the bikes themselves are perhaps the
> last machines
> that are FULLY "keeper of the flame" still used
> in elite level
> competition. As Aussie track racer says, Japanese Keirin
> is "The Land
> That Time Forgot."
>
> http://www.cyclingnews.com/riders/2007/diaries/benk/?id=benk0701
>
> Now, Ted made some good points. I think people overlook a
> few items about
> Keirin, whic h mainly relate to the betting. These items
> are the main
> factors that distinguish the original Japanese form from
> the the
> UCI/Iinternational style.
>
> For one thing, in Japanese style Keirin, there are 9 guys
> on the track at
> one time. So you need the extra space on the track.
> Also, the rules are
> designed to have 3 parallel pace lines form during the
> course of the race,
> until about the last 200 meters, when it should
> "devolve" to a situation
> in which each rider is racing for himself. So again, you
> need both the
> width and the length afforded by a 400 meter velodrome. I
> think Ted's
> email implied this. And something he pointed out
> expressly is that it's
> easier to see infractions and illegal team tactics. This
> is actually
> quite important, even if (as in all sporting events) some
> competitors are
> "more equal" than others.
>
> But I must say, I love track racing in all its forms and
> would love to get
> over to Japan or Korea and see some of these races in
> person.
> Cheers,
> Fred Rednor - Arlington, Virginia (USA)
>
> --- On Wed, 1/28/09, ternst <ternst1@cox.net> wrote:
>
> > From: ternst <ternst1@cox.net>
> > Subject: Re: [CR] Keirin (track design) Questions
> > To: bikes@msu.edu
> > Cc: dale@nas-track.com, fred_rednor@yahoo.com
> > Date: Wednesday, January 28, 2009, 1:57 PM
> > That's it alright.
> > The larger tracks give the room to manuver and do the
> good
> > run out where actual top speed can come into play
> without
> > tricksterism being too much a deciding factor.
> > Surely Keirin has many nuances for shrewd tactics, but
> > it's easier to see infractions and teaming.
> > It gives a rider a shot at creating a hole and getting
> thru
> > if he has the stuff to execute his game plan.
> > Ted Ernst
> > Palos Verdes Estates
> > CA USA
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Tim Potter
> > To: ternst1@cox.net
> > Cc: dale@nas-track.com ; fred_rednor@yahoo.com
> > Sent: Wednesday, January 28, 2009 8:24 AM
> > Subject: Re: [CR] Keirin (track design) Questions
> >
> >
> > Having ridden on one of the 500m keirin tracks in
> Japan
> > many times and observed many pro races there I agree
> with
> > you Ted, on the lack of intimacy with the larger
> tracks, but
> > in the case of keirin in Japan or Korea where gambling
> is
> > the main focus for the fans I don't believe
> they're
> > too concerned with being close to the action as much
> as
> > their guy(s) winning and making them rich (gambler and
> > racer).
> >
> >
> >
> > For amateur/ pro racing where gambling isn't
> involved
> > I'd say the smaller track sizes would certainly be
> > desirable to draw more fans and keep them coming back
> for
> > more.
> >
> >
> >
> > Perhaps America's preeminent track designer
> (Atlanta
> > Olympic Velodrome, Bloomer Park and other newer tracks
> > overseas), Dale Hughes, would like to comment?
> >
> >
> >
> > Tim
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Message: 7
> >
> > Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2009 19:46:52 -0800
> >
> > From: ternst <ternst1@cox.net>
> >
> > Subject: Re: [CR] Keirin Questions
> >
> > To: Fred Rednor <fred_rednor@yahoo.com>,
> >
> > <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>
> >
> > Message-ID:
> > <0AB6EB38BCCA412DA1BF43EC0508D4E7@D8XCLL51>
> >
> > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed;
> > charset="iso-8859-1";
> >
> > reply-type=original
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > I don't think the world is too interested in
> > conforming to Keirin.
> >
> > For what they do the 333m track is a good size with
> the
> > motor pacing and
> >
> > lead out.
> >
> > The 250 M is the world standard now.
> >
> > 45 degrees in the two turns, wood and I think
> somewhat or
> > all enclosed for
> >
> > wind consistency and record setting.
> >
> > The big tracks were nice but after looking at all
> the
> > various events the 250
> >
> > m size is big enough to give the riders a good run
> but
> > not so big to be
> >
> > boring.
> >
> > The bigger tracks are like riding on the road and if
> > spectators are t o be
> >
> > excited and enjoying the action it has to be small
> enough
> > to keep interest,
> >
> > but not so small as to deny tactics.
> >
> > The old sixes were held in many small halls and the
> > tracks were less than
> >
> > 200 m and most in the US were 150 to 175 so the
> action
> > was fast and furious.
> >
> > The 250m x 45degree banking is rated for 100 KPH so
> that
> > any speed allows
> >
> > for full power and speed with maximum control.
> >
> > Team races are exciting, makes gaining a lap a
> doable
> > challenge.
> >
> > Team pursuit looks dangerous and fast when the rider
> > swings up to the rail
> >
> > and then dives down to catch the teammates wheel at
> 35
> > miles an hour and
> >
> > only leave a few inches gap when done correctly. Try
> it
> > some time.
> >
> > The sprints are also exciting as it give plenty room
> to
> > jump, attack, catch,
> >
> > pass.
> >
> > It seems to be the best compromise size.
> >
> > Ted Ernst
> >
> > Palos Verdes Estates
> >
> > CA USA
> >
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> >
> > From: "Fred Rednor"
> > <fred_rednor@yahoo.com>
> >
> > To: <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>
> >
> > Sent: Tuesday, January 27, 2009 5:20 PM
> >
> > Subject: Re: [CR] Keirin Questions
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > >
> >
> > > > FYI: Italy is in the process of
> > constructing a new
> >
> > > > world class track of 250 meters in
> > length.
> >
> > > > I just wrote about it today
> > coincidentally:
> >
> > > >
> >
> > >
> >
> http://italiancyclingjournal.blogspot.com/2009/01/armstrong-new-velodrome-in
> -montichiari.html
> >
> > > >
> >
> > > > > Is there any movement to
> standardize
> > race tracks from
> >
> > > > > the 250 meter to the larger
> > 350-500Meter tracks Keirin
> >
> > > > > races use? Seems like until we
> > standardize the racing
> >
> > > > > conditions, there never will be
> > anything like a true
> >
> > > > > World Championship o f track
> racing.
> >
> > >
> >
> > > Two comments:
> >
> > > 1) Brescia is a great region for cycling. Is
> all of
> > Lago di Garda
> >
> > > actually within that province?
> >
> > > 2) I believe that all UCI sanctioned
> championships
> > already must be
> >
> > > conducted on 250 meter velodromes. That's
> > another difference between
> >
> > > Japanese (and Korean) Keirin and
> > "International" Keirin.
> >
> > > Cheers,
> >
> > > Fred Rednor - Arlington, VIrginia (USA)
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________

------------------------------

Message: 7 Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2009 21:06:09 -0800 From: Bill Kloos <billkloos@landuseoregon.com> Subject: [CR] Campy Nuovo Record Rear Derailleur Assembly Question To: <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org> Cc: Bill Kloos <billkloos@landuseoregon.com> Message-ID: <000001c981cf$4d541820$e7fc4860$@com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

I have, spread out in front of me in a pile, a disassembled Campy NR rear DR, with only the upper and lower body and front and inner arms still connected together. Stuff is clean and shiny, after an ultrasound bath in WD 40. I want to reassemble, not while blindfolded, as with my ROTC M-14 in 1965, but while watching CSI reruns with my wife. How do I reassemble, in the most civilized way, part no. 84 (gear return spring screw) and part no. 98/A (gear return spring)? When assembled, the gear return spring screw is holding the gear return spring in some tension, as the spring holds the body in shape. Is there any way to marry the spring and screw and body together without horsing it all around? I did one a couple years ago but felt like a micro wrestler. How did they do it on the assembly line in Italy in 1972? I face the same challenge with an original model Rally DR, which is in a different pile, but with more pieces.

Bill Klo os 375 W. 4th Street, Suite 204 Eugene, OR? 97401 Phone: (541) 343-8596 e-mail: billkloos@landuseoregon.com

------------------------------

Message: 8 Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2009 00:19:06 -0500 From: devotion finesse <devotion_finesse@hotmail.com> Subject: Re: [CR] Modern detailing? To: <beandk@rcn.com>, CR discussion list <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org> Message-ID: <COL113-W2232B9277C10596DDA6AF0F5C90@phx.gbl> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252"

Nothing remotely Italian or even remotely Masi about that frame (except for the sticker). It's a Taiwanese hunk of junk made by Haro and bearing a na me it doesn't deserve.The Vigorelli still turns out exceptionally crafted f rames in the old tradition, many from the hands of Faliero's son, Alber to.They are badged "Milano Sport" or "Alberto Masi" when available in the U nited States. Matthew BowneBrooklyn, New York

----------------------------------------
> From: beandk@rcn.com
> To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
> Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2009 22:32:20 -0500
> Subject: [CR] Modern detailing?
>
> On Boston CL, there's a quite new very OT Masi with the track frame end
> featured in a photo. I know Masi is not the shop it once was, but it lo oks
> like hell. Is this typical of how new Italian steel frames are finished?
>
> http://boston.craigslist.org/gbs/bik/1011954887.html
>
> David Bean
> Arlington, MA USA
> beandk at are-see-enn dot com
>
> _______________________________________________

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Message: 9 Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2009 23:01:03 -0700 From: John Wood <braxton72@gmail.com> Subject: Re: [CR] double-check your shipping prices, Was: Confente levers?... To: Wilson Paul <paul@wilsondesigns.n et> Cc: FujiFish1@aol.com, classicrendezvous@bikelist.org Message-ID: <28dcb8780901282201l11ae27b5q42313a83ae612452@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"

Hi Paul, UPS will definitely be more expensive than USPS on small packages, while UPS will normally be cheaper on big ones.

John

On Wed, Jan 28, 2009 at 5:23 PM, Dr. Paul J. Wilson <pauliboyw@yahoo.com>wrote:
> Hi Mark,
>
> Thanks for this email.
> I too thought along these lines.
> Perhaps the method using eBay's "shipping wizard" is not the best business
> decision.
>
> Pauli
> Paul Wilson 26077 Arjuna Avenue, Temecula, California 92590, USA
> http://www.wilsondesigns.net 951-587-3632
>
> On Jan 28, 2009, at 8:26 AM, <FujiFish1@aol.com> <FujiFish1@aol.com>
> wrote:
>
>
>> No big deal. Shipping prices are irrelevant, really. Just decide how
>> much
>> you are willing to pay for an item, delivered to your door. Then
>> subtract
>> the seller's shipping price, and bid. It all works out the same in the
>> end.
>> And for those who are scared away by the quoted shipping ... all the
>> better
>> for those who perform the math work cited above.
>>
>> Ciao,
>> Mark Agree
>> Southfield MI USA
>> ~ ~ ~
>>
>>
>> Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2009 09:45:57 -0600
>> From: accobra <accobra@peoplepc.com>
>> Subject: Re: [CR] Confente levers ???????
>> To: Wilson Paul <paul@wilsondesigns.net>,
>>
>> Pauli, if this is your auction (Temecula, CA?), please double-check
>> your
>> shipping prices. I just sent an eBay question about the derailleur also
>> listed. These levers are something I could have an interest in too but
>> the
>> $15.35 listed shipping (plus insurance!) within the USA is way off the
>> map.
>> Lightweight lever handles can be mailed via 1st class mail (under 1 lb.)
>> for
>> about $3.25 with delivery confirmation. Or, if you really want to send
>> via
>> Priority Mail and use the free boxes the postal service provides (I like
>> to
>> use those too...) then you can still send for $5.60. Add a dollar or two
>> for "pack ing" if need be, but please, re-think the $15.35 shipping
>> prices.
>> I think you are probably scaring off some potential customers. Thanks &
>> good luck!
>>
>> Mark Winkelman
>> Dallas, Texas USA
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Dr. Paul J. Wilson" <pauliboyw@yahoo.com>
>> To: <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>
>> Sent: Wednesday, January 28, 2009 9:26 AM
>> Subject: [CR] Confente levers ???????
>>
>>
>> Could these be Confente levers??
>>>
>>> eBay 260351966375
>>>
>>> Thanks!!!!!
>>>
>>> Pauli
>>> Paul Wilson 26077 Arjuna Avenue, Temecula, California 92590, USA
>>> http://www.wilsondesigns.net 951-587-3632
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> **************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2
>> easy
>> steps!
>> (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1215855013x1201028747/aol?redir=
>> http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072%
>> 26hmpgID=62%26bcd=De
>> cemailfooterNO62)
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
>

-- John Wood Missoula, Montana, USA

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Message: 10 Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2009 22:03:22 -0800 From: Pacific Coast Cycles <paccoastcycles@sbcglobal.net> Subject: Re: [CR] Modern detailing? To: <beandk@rcn.com>, CR discussion list <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>, devotion finesse <devotion_finesse@hotmail.com> Message-I D: <729664.79301.qm@web82203.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"

Sir, you say that as if "Italian" is a good thing. Where can good frames co me from? Maybe I should rephrase that to say which country can good frames
come from?
?
Chuck Hoefer


--- On Wed, 1/28/09, devotion finesse wrote:


From: devotion finesse <devotion_finesse@hotmail.com> Subject: Re: [CR] Modern detailing? To: beandk@rcn.com, "CR discussion list" <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org> Date: Wednesday, January 28, 2009, 9:19 PM

Nothing remotely Italian or even remotely Masi about that frame (except for the sticker). It's a Taiwanese hunk of junk made by Haro and bearing a na me it doesn't deserve.The Vigorelli still turns out exceptionally crafted f rames in the old tradition, many from the hands of Faliero's son, Alber to.They are badged "Milano Sport" or "Alberto Masi" when available in the U nited States. Matthew BowneBrooklyn, New York

----------------------------------------
> From: beandk@rcn.com
> To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
> Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2009 22:32:20 -0500
> Subject: [CR] Modern detailing?
>
> On Boston CL, there's a quite new very OT Masi with the track frame end
> featured in a photo. I know Masi is not the shop it once was, but it lo oks
> like hell. Is this typical of how new Italian steel frames are finished?
>
> http://boston.craigslist.org/gbs/bik/1011954887.html
>
> David Bean
> Arlington, MA USA
> beandk at are-see-enn dot com
>
> _______________________________________________

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