Harvey, Dale, and all,
This may be re-opening an old can of worms, based on my brief survey of the 2005 discussion of the "what is KOF?" topic in the archives (which. in turn, refers to previous intense discussions of the topic), but I would argue that the dedication and skill devoted by Ben Serotta to his CSI frames definitely qualifies them for KOF status, rear axle spacing and carbon fork options notwithstanding. Just look at how they are made, and how well their forbears did for Davis Phinney and others on the racing circuit. (Doesn't that genetic lineage alone keep them in the KOF family?)
I have seen several postings here since last summer about new "KOF" lugged-steel production bikes manufactured in the Mystic East, with descriptions of their less-than-stellar quality and/or blatant "retro" marketing, but CSIs were (and are) beautifully made--whether in made-to-measure or production design--and are worthy of serious praise from admirers of steel bikes, as Harvey has noted in his post. The CSI is/was most certainly an homage to the "vintage" and "custom" bikes as well as making technically sophisticated new contributions to the advancement of "real steel" frame design and production. I have sold and ridden Serottas, including CSIs and their non-KOF Ti cousins, and would personally classify a Serotta CSI as meeting Dale's definition (quoted here from the 2005 archives):
"We also consider "on topic" makers of very fine bicycles that can be seen as "Keepers of the Flame" for classic style"
Of course, I would also not hesitate to classify my (1997?) Albert Eisentraut as a KOF bike, especially in its all-steel (including fork) version, despite its 130MM rear spacing and Campi Chorus gruppo and Ergo 9-speed Racing Triple drivetrain, too. Why? Because the heart of the bike is its frame, and the frame was built with the same kind of TLC and dedication to craft as period-correct all-steel bikes. (Does it still qualify, now that I have replaced the steel fork with a carbon Serotta F1 fork in order to reduce my numb-hands problems? perhaps not. But adding a carbon fork in order to be able to keep--and keep riding--a steel-framed bike is a morally defensible option when compared to buying an all-carbon bike instead, IMHO.)
It's all about steel tubes, flux, solder, torches, and lots of TLC, after all...
Jon Spangler in Alameda, CA USA
On Feb 1, 2009, at 9:31 AM, <classicrendezvous-request@bikelist.org>
<classicrendezvous-request@bikelist.org> wrote:
> Message: 11
> Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2009 06:17:26 -0500
> From: Harvey Sachs <hmsachs@verizon.net>
> Subject: [CR] End of the line for production lugged steel?
> To: Classic Rendezvous <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>
> Message-ID: <498584C6.6000104@verizon.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
>
> I purchased a frameset Saturday that doesn't really qualify for our
> list, but I asked Dale for an exception becuase it is interesting.
> It's a Serotta "CSI" from the mid-1990s. It is perhaps the last time
> that a manufacturer invested in dedicated tubing and a special lug
> set for it. The seat tube is tapered and the bb end is slightly
> oval. The top tube is oval at one end, and the down tube is
> tapered. The
> lugs are really nice, although not thinned in the style of top
> custom US
> work. Yup, too many were produced to qualify as "keepers of the
> flame,"
> but there is a lot that is traditional in them: All steel, fully
> lugged,
> one-inch headset and 27.2 seat tube...
>
> What's it remind me of? Well, think about the best production bikes of
> the 1970s, like the Paramount and the Raleigh Pro. To me, these
> Serottas
> honor that history: production bikes built and equipped to a very high
> standard. But, these late Serottas also remind me of the painstaking
> work that builders from Rene Herse to Bill Boston did to
> custom-fabricate lugs for non-standard applications like tandem
> bottom-bracket tubes.
>
> It's a sid
> e path, and I don't think they detract from the recent
> dedicated lug sets for (slightly) oversized tubes from Richard (no
> relation) Sachs, Pacenti, and others.
>
> These Serottas aren't particularly rare or expensive, may be worth
> having as the end of the line, and a nice way to play with other
> off-topic "stuff." But, since they are not customs and are designed
> for
> indexed gear trains, we must not continue this conversation in Dale's
> garage. I'd love to hear off-line from others (and would share such
> posts if asked), and appreciate Dale's courtesy in allowing this
> exception to our usual discipline.
>
> harvey sachs
> mcLean va.
>
>
Jon Spangler
Writer/Editor
Linda Hudson Writing
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MOBILE 510-846-5356
hudsonspangler@earthlink.net