Re: [CR] the oddity of ebay and collectors

(Example: Framebuilders:Cecil Behringer)

Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2009 14:44:05 -0800
From: Raymond Dobbins <>
To: Steven Maasland <>, Classic Rendezvous Bike List <>
In-Reply-To: <07B8EFA202564797BE92E58A4E8F0D8A@ToshibaLaptop>
Subject: Re: [CR] the oddity of ebay and collectors

  Hi Steve,

I don't think anybody would decline a free Shimano 600 groupset, but ve ry few collectors, or just plain knowledgable buyers, would pay anything for it.  So hanging this groupset on a De Rosa frame does nothing for  the frame's value or desirability.  In fact, it may even be a detrim ent.  As Kurt said, it brings down the perceived prestige and value o f the frame.  Same thing, for example, with Campy Victory or Triomphe.

The fact that some people ask if you'll sell them just the frame indicates that they aren't looking for a funtional bike - they're looking for a De Ro sa frame to build up.  And if nobody so far has asked for a price reducti on, it's probably because they know the groupset is a throw-away.

It would be interesting to know how the ultimate winner of this bike evalua ted it.  Let us know if you ask him.  Good luck with the auctions.

Ray Dobbins
Miami Florida USA

--- On Tue, 2/17/09, Steven Maasland wrote:

From: Steven Maasland <> Subject: [CR] the oddity of ebay and collectors To: "CR" <> Date: Tuesday, February 17, 2009, 2:41 PM

I outed a few auctions that I have running for 3 different De Rosa bikes on the 15th of February.

I think that what is happening with these auctions is the perfect of example of how the strange mindset of most "collectors" works.

All three bikes that I am selling have very similar frames that are assuredly made by De Rosa at about the same time (my guess is that they were built within 4-6 years of one another). All were built in a time period when De Rosa was neither at the top nor the bottom of his game. They are all "standard" De Rosa frames without any major distinguishing features (apart from one frame that has the sought after diamond chainstays).

The strangeness comes out when you look at the number of bookmarks, the bidding and the questions received. The 54.5 cm frame has in fact received the most views and has the paint that is in the best shape of the three. It has a ratio of views to bookmarks of 1:14. The 57.5 cm and the 56.5 bikes with slightly lesser paintjobs have a ratio of views to bookmarks of 1:11. So this would seem to indicate that there is something "wrong" or "lesser" with this one particular auction. I have excluded size and paint as these are clearly visible before you even enter the auction. So what is the "sin" of the 54.5 cm frame? It is fitted with a Shimano 600 groupset! This is further reinforced by the questions received. I have now received 4 questions relating to this one bike asking whether I would be willing to ship the frame/fork alone, without components to save on shipping. None of these people are even asking for a rebate for the Shimano parts that would be removed. The moral to be learned is therefore that if you have shimano components on a De Rosa, it is better to strip them off and sell as a frame alone rather than try and sell as a complete bike. Whereas as a buyer, watch out for sought after frames with "lesser" groupsets and you can possible walk away with a great functional bike for less than the price of the frame alone. BTW, the present price of the whole bike is still below what any bare De Rosa frame of the same vintage has sold for in months.

Steven Maasland
Moorestown, NJ