Re: [CR] Raliegh frame in Team Colours On Ebay 400032976224

(Example: Production Builders:Peugeot)

References: <20090310215059.9547719D8D@ug6.ece.ubc.ca>
To: <gillies@ece.ubc.ca>, <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>
Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2009 08:59:29 -0400
In-Reply-To: <20090310215059.9547719D8D@ug6.ece.ubc.ca>
From: <verktyg@aol.com>
Subject: Re: [CR] Raliegh frame in Team Colours On Ebay 400032976224


Don,

The 1979 Raleigh Reynolds 531 "Record" in Team colors that I got on eBay last fall has a black head tube. It's pretty much a Competition G.S. frame in Team kit with components for the European market.

Forks:

Back in the mid 70s I had a Reynolds "Stock List" with prices and what amounted to a catalog. Unfortunately, I can't find it anymore.

Reynolds listed their 531 fork blades with at least 5 different bends or curves in round or oval or "continental" oval. They also offered straight blades. You could still special order "D" shaped blades at that time.

The bends they offered ranged from a gradual uniform curve that started about 2/3 to 3/4 from the top to a fast curve that began about 1/4 from the bottom of the blade. They also listed blades with the non curved bend that you described about 1/3 from the bottom.

The blades were available with domed or straight cut ends, with or without slots cut for dropouts. They also offered different bottom end diameters in Imperial or Metric sizes; 3/8' and 1/2" come to mind, plus blades with differing amounts of taper (Reynolds also used to offer "pencil" forks and stays with what looked like 1/4"or 5/16" diameter ends that were used on Hetcnins and other classic old British frames).

Another variable was the tubing wall thickness. I think that there were 3 different offerings: 17/20 gage, 18/21 gage and 19/24 gage BSW (1.42mm/0.91mm, 1.22mm/0.81mm and 1.02mm/0.56mm). They also offered oversize blades for tandems with a 16/20 gage wall thickness (1.63mm/0.91mm).

Reynolds "produced" or at least listed an extremely wide offering of 531 tubing including main tubes from 22/24 gage to 18/20 gage (0.71mm/0.56mm to 1.2mm/0.91mm).

Before anyone jumps in with their own experiences with Reynolds, the magic number was 100 sets; that is they would make just about any combination of tubes as long as you ordered at least 100 sets of tubing. I got together with several other frame builders around 1976 and we ordered some extra long Reynolds 531 tube sets with main tubes and seat stays long enough to build a 66-67cm frame.

Getting back to the fork curve/bend issue, you are correct about the blades with the bend in them. The location of the bend or curve can make a considerable difference in the ride (rake or trail affects the handling). The further up the fork blade the bend occurs, the larger the diameter of the tube and the less flexible it becomes. Blades with all of the bend at the bottom tend to flex more depending on the tube diameter and wall thickness.

Up through the 1960s many road racing bikes had the bends near the bottom of the forks. I think that this was due to the rough road surfaces that many races were conducted on. By the mid 70s the "sleek Italian look" dominated in fork fashion on better quality bikes. Also by that time road surfaces throughout much of Europe had improved.

If you look at a lot of the entry level European "gas pipe" bikes from that era, they still had most of the curve at the bottom of the forks.

Many Ron Cooper frames from the 70s had what I call fat forks. They had graceful long curves but the forks maintained a large diameter all the way to the dropout. On the other hand Mercian frames tended to have the same kind of curves but the used thiner diameter blades.

On other thing, builders could remove stock from the top of the blades (recommended by Reynolds) or the bottom or both which could change the way the fork performed. My 1979 Raleigh Record has bent fork blades which are not only ugly but provide a harsh ride compared to my 1975 Raleigh Pro.

I have a 1967 Peugeot PX10 and an almost identical Gitane Tour de France. The frame geometry is the same for both bikes. Last year I figured out why back in the day I never like the way PX10s rode. I suspect that the PX10 has heavier gage tubing in the fork blades which make it ride harsher than the Gitane (harder on the hands and shoulders).

Charles Colerich Oakland, CA

-----Original Message----- From: donald gillies <gillies@ece.ubc.ca> To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org Sent: Tue, 10 Mar 2009 1:50 pm Subject: Re: [CR] Ralieg frame in Team Colours 0 Ebay 400032976224

Harry,

I think I know what Norris Lockley is referring to in the 'Competition Team Pro Bike' on Ebay (which, according to its serial number, is a 1979 comp gs model painted in red/yellow/black paint, with a yellow head-tube.) By the way, after 1974 raleigh (but not ilkeston) continued to produce bikes with yellow head-tubes; for example, the Raleigh-Record level bike ALWAYS had a yellow head-tube, it never had a black one.

Reynolds produced 2 versions of pre-raked 531 fork blades. The earlier "curved" blades contained a smooth and continuous bend, all the way out to the dropout eyes. Example :

http://img.auctiva.com/imgdata/8/4/4/3/8/2/webimg/156000723_tp.jpg

there was a latter type of fork blade, where the blades seem to have a 135 degree bend at 3/4 down the blade, from whence they go straight out to the dropout eyes. So these blades are "bent" at a single location, about 3/4 of the way down the blade :

http://img.auctiva.com/imgdata/8/4/4/3/8/2/webimg/156000723_tp.jpg

Norris is complaining that these "bent" blades do not absorb shocks as well as the original "curved" reynolds blades. In my opinion, the reynolds blades are half the value of a reynolds 531 frame's ride, so he may well be correct. However, I'm not sure the bend is creating the problem, it may be that the bent blades are not "taper gauge" which was a process that produced uniform wall thickness throughout the earlier blades.

In any event I have no firsthand knowledge about which blades produce a harsher ride, and why ...

- Don Gillies
San Diego, CA, USA