[CR] Kick-back 2 speeds (Was Beating Dead Horses)

(Example: Production Builders)

Date: Sat, 28 Mar 2009 21:17:55 -0700
From: "Randy Reidelbach" <reidelbach@sbcglobal.net>
To: <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>
In-Reply-To: <mailman.7.1238270401.47874.classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>
Subject: [CR] Kick-back 2 speeds (Was Beating Dead Horses)

That's what we called them, Kick-Back 2 speeds.  A kid up the street had one for a while when I was a kid back in the 60's (ouch).  I've got no id ea who made it.  It had a coaster brake, but if you back-pedaled just a l ittle - before the brake was applied, it would shift gears high to low or l ow to high.  It was cool.  Looked just like a regular kids bike, no cab les or levers, but two speeds.  I'd love to have one, in my size, of cour se - this was a kid's bike and Jeffy was pretty short at that.

Randy Reidelbach Windsor, CA

--- On Sat, 3/28/09, classicrendezvous-request@bikelist.org <classicrendezv ous-request@bikelist.org> wrote:

From: classicrendezvous-request@bikelist.org <classicrendezvous-request@bik elist.org> Subject: Classicrendezvous Digest, Vol 75, Issue 109 To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org Date: Saturday, March 28, 2009, 1:00 PM

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Today's Topics:

1. Re: beating dead horses (mrrabbit@mrrabbit.net) 2. WTB: Cheap copy of Six Days of Madness by Ted Harper, Xerox OK (Harry Schwartzman) 3. Re: Bentleys, Bikes and team cars (Jan Heine) 4. Selfish eBay outing: Campy Super Record RD-Pat. 84, Sedis chain (Drew Ellison) 5. For Sale...OR... WTB, Red Velox plug (Jay Dubiel) 6. Colnago at the SD Gran Fondo (Dale Brown) 7. Re: Bentleys, Bikes and team cars (M-gineering) 8. Re: Jerseys and Collars (r7glm@aol.com) 9. Sasha White Featured in Forbes Magazine - April 13, 2009 (averyallen@aol.com)


Message: 1 Date: Sat, 28 Mar 2009 10:57:26 -0700 From: <mrrabbit@mrrabbit.net> Subject: Re: [CR] beating dead horses To: <lyonstrings@yahoo.com> Cc: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org Message-ID: 1238263046.49ce6506cc902@www.mrrabbit.net Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"

Used to live there...the sub was a playground item when I was there 1975-19 78.


My first bike was while in Key West - it was one of those Schwinn bikes wit h the kind of hub where kicking the pedals backward such as when braking chan ged the gears...can't remember if it was 2 or 3 speed. Had another one like it

briefly during the 80's here in San Jose. Does anyone else remember these? Or

was it a bug of some kind in the mechanicals?


Robert Shackelford San Jose, CA USA

Quoting john strizek <lyonstrings@yahoo.com>:
> 1. Snubbed: So someone lacks courtesy. That is nothing new in today's world.
> I suggest we drop the discussion and move on.2. Japanese WWII: I have seen
> a captured 2 man WWII submarine when at Key West Florida Naval Base, it was I
> beleive transferred there from the West Coast. In Canada I at a military
> museum I saw the remains of a baloon bomb that landed in British Columbia .
> bye for now,John StrizekSacramento California USA
> _______________________________________________
> --
> PRIVACY WARNING: For auditing purposes, a copy of this message has been
> saved in a permanent database.

-- PRIVACY WARNING: For auditing purposes, a copy of this message has been saved in a permanent database.


Message: 2 Date: Sat, 28 Mar 2009 10:57:49 -0700 From: Harry Schwartzman <harryschwartzman@yahoo.com> Subject: [CR] WTB: Cheap copy of Six Days of Madness by Ted Harper, Xerox OK To: Classic Rendezvous <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org> Message-ID: <876257.70697.qm@web53509.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"


I am looking to buy a copy of Ted Harper's 'Six Days of Madness', and I don't want to pay much for it. I really want to read it, and my local libraries do not have it.

According to Amazon this book is mega-rare, but I figured this crew ought t o have a line on this...

Regards, Harry Schwartzman Long Island City, NYC


Message: 3 Date: Sat, 28 Mar 2009 11:30:38 -0700 From: Jan Heine <heine94@earthlink.net> Subject: Re: [CR] Bentleys, Bikes and team cars To: <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org> Message-ID: <a062309ccc5f41d478963@[]> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed
>At the Bonhams auction in February in Paris a
>number of advertising cars developed for the
>Tour de France were offered for auction.
>Here is a link to one of them, which will get you to the auction listing.
>http://www.bonhams.com/cgi-bin/public.sh/pubweb/publicSite.r?sContinentE UR&screen=lotdetailsNoFlash&iSaleItemNoB02706&iSaleNo043&iSaleSe c tionNo=2

I saw the TdF advertising cars in Paris at Retromobile. They were huge hulking devices pop-riveted from aluminum sheet and covered with papier mach? (or so it looked). They resembled carnival floats. Their connection to cycling is about as tenuous as that of TV ads that interrupt classic Hitchcock movies. You pay to go to a movie theater so you don't have to watch the ads. The Tour de France is free, so you have to watch the ads roll by. That doesn't mean you need to glorify them. (There was a nice Citroen Traction Avant, unmolested except for some really cool graphics for Miko ice cream.)

What I find far more fascinating are the interactions between car designers and bike builders. In Italy, the Cisitalias were the first cars to have spaceframes because the owner of the company, Piero (?) Dusio, had a bicycle factory, and they had lots of tubing lying around. Making a jig and welding up tubing was easier than having a pressed-steel chassis tooled up. (Or were the Cisitalias brazed? The one I saw did NOT have lugs, that much is sure!) However, I don't see any indication that in return, Italian bicycles were influenced by engineers like Dante Giacosa or Vittorio Jano. Otherwise, cup-and-cone bottom brackets would not have lasted into the 1980s... (Nothing wrong with them, but they basically are 1800s technology and cartridge bearings were used in most other applications starting in the 1930s.)

In France, cycling, and especially cyclotouring, saw many more interactions with the car world.

The two Reyhand women's bikes in Bicycle Quarterly Vol. 5, No. 1 came from a rich industrialist whose factory made all the springs for Renault cars and Berliet trucks. His daughter said that in addition to nice cars, he loved nice bikes, and he used to go and discuss with Reiss at the Reyhand shop all the time. (Imagine a top-of-the-line Peter Weigle for your wife and daughter, so they can carry their poodles on a rear rack and ride into town to go shopping.)

Ettore Bugatti built a bike in the 1910s with four top and down tubes, which wasn't much good. In the 1930s, he had learned a lot (perhaps also during his stint at the Breguet aircraft factory during and after World War I). He is said to have suggested the double triangulation for tandems that still makes the best tandems today. (It's too labor-intensive, so few builders use it.)

Louis Delage, who built perhaps the most innovative racing cars in the 1920s, bought a Camille Daudon cyclotouring bike (similar to the one in our book "The Golden Age of Handbuilt Bicycles") in the 1940s and wrote that it was the most marvellous piece of mechanical equipment he ever owned.

Roland Csuka, who made the Alex Singer frames, worked at Citro?n and perhaps Renault during the 1950s and 1960s when there was little demand for bicycles.

Ren? Herse did not come from cars, but from aircraft. He worked on the prototype Breguet aircraft that was the first to cross the Atlantic the hard way, East to West, against the prevailing winds of the jet stream. I wonder whether some of the similarities in detail solutions (screws with built-in washers) between Herse bikes and Bugatti cars really come from Breguet, where both men worked (albeit not together, Herse was there a few years after Bugatti.)

It's no coincidence that both Herse and Singer had their shops in Levallois-Perret, where all the racing car manufacturers and body shops, etc., were located. Whether Citroen, Hispano-Suiza, Delage, Figoni & Falaschi, Chapron and many small shops, they all were within 5 miles of each other on the edge of Paris. There were machine shops, foundries, platers and other workshops all over that part of town, making it easy to find somebody to subcontract parts such as special BB spindles or custom cantilever brakes.

Does anybody know of similar influences of cars on bicycles in Britain or Italy? The Bentley Boys don't seem to have had much interest in bicycles... Perhaps they could have learned from cycle makers how to make sturdy machines that don't weigh two tons! (Nothing against vintage Bentleys, there are marvellous machines.)

Jan Heine Editor Bicycle Quarterly 140 Lakeside Ave #C Seattle WA 98122 http://www.vintagebicyclepress.com
>David Cooper
>Chicago, IL
>On Mar 28, 2009, at 10:23 AM, Dave Porter wrote:
>>There are quite a few "vintage" team cars on Facebook photo sites. Start
>>with the Bill Woodul fan club
>>Porter Customs 2909 Arno NE
>>Albuquerque, NM USA 87107
>>1954 BN2 1959 AN5
>>Porter Custom Bicycles
>>blog: http://porterbikes.com/
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: classicrendezvous-bounces@bikelist.org
>>[mailto:classicrendezvous-bounces@bikelist.org] On Behalf Of Jim Kruse
>>Sent: Saturday, March 28, 2009 9:14 AM
>>To: brianbaylis@juno.com
>>Cc: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
>>Subject: [CR] Bentleys, Bikes and team cars
>>A few years ago I was lucky enough to be a guest at Donnington Park and
>>the chance to ride around in a 1920's 4.5 liter Bentley. It was
>>. Nothing like your R-type, but still pretty cool.
>>Maybe Lord March will catch on with the Cars and Bikes bit and a
>>bring a
>>vintage bike racing class to Goodwood sometime. I bet it would be a
>>hit. And cheaper to ship a bike then a car. When you consider
>>all t
>>he drivers that raced bikes, including, maybe the greatest early
>>American d
>>river, Barney Oldfield, there is a real historical connection. He got
>>s start racing bikes on the track.
>>Does anyone have any idea what ever happened to the vintage cycling team
>>pport cars?
>>They have to be somewhere. Maybe not. Would love some photos of
>>if anyone has them.
>>Cheers. Jim
>>260-672-9113 Fax


Message: 4 Date: Sat, 28 Mar 2009 11:32:31 -0700 From: Drew Ellison <drew@masirider.com> Subject: [CR] Selfish eBay outing: Campy Super Record RD-Pat. 84, Sedis chain To: "classicrendezvous (E-mail)" <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org> Message-ID: <D46F45E6-31E2-49E7-AD08-462665774F30@masirider.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"; format=flowed; delsp=yes

Hello all,

Self-promoting eBay outing here:

1) Campagnolo Super Record Rear Derailleur, excellent shape, item no. 140310724060. I'll give free shipping to any CR folks on this item. Just be sure and let me know right after auction ends if you're a CR folk.

2) Sedis Nickel or Silver 3/32" chain, 106 links, almost new, item no. 140310742454


I've also got a few other on topic items which will be ending today and tomorrow.

Thanks for looking.

Drew Ellison, in ever-rainy-and-cold Everett, Washington USA


Message: 5 Date: Sat, 28 Mar 2009 14:33:50 -0400 From: Jay Dubiel <zoomdog@pure.net> Subject: [CR] For Sale...OR... WTB, Red Velox plug To: classicrendezvous <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org> Message-ID: <49CE6D8E.5050901@pure.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed

Offering For Sale, one (1) only, Red Velox bar plug. NOS and supple rubber. In the making color inclusion. See photo at link attached. $10.00 including shipping and NO extra for Paypal. http://s517.photobucket.com/albums/u335/gypsybike/FOR%20SALE/?action=view &current=veloxband.jpg

OR...I'm willing to buy your single plug in like condition (plus or minus added color) for the same pricing to make a Pair.

Jay Dubiel Halifax, VA USA


Message: 6 Date: Sat, 28 Mar 2009 14:38:25 -0400 From: Dale Brown <oroboyz@aol.com> Subject: [CR] Colnago at the SD Gran Fondo To: <brianbaylis@juno.com>, <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org> Message-ID: <8CB7DEB8374200C-12B8-2376@WEBMAIL-MA15.sysops.aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Thanks Brian, that is the story I was waiting for you to tell... Colnago is certainly an amazing success and very cool that he gave you that thumbs up!

Dale Brown Greensboro, North Carolina USA

-----Original Message----- From: brianbaylis@juno.com <brianbaylis@juno.com> To: biankita@comcast.net Cc: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org Sent: Sat, 28 Mar 2009 10:54 am Subject: Re: [CR] Colnago movie from Friday night's list


I have long been a fan of Colnago bicycles. My second "good" bike was a Colnago Super I bought in 1972, not long after buying a Peugeot PX-10 fo r my first bike. By the time I began racing in 1973 the Peugeot had gone by the wayside in favor of the Colnago. I also had a 1972 Masi GC and a n Eisentraut "A" bike. The Eisentraut was a great bike, but a little les s racing oriented than the Colnago. For me, the Colnago had the correct geometry and that classy European look.

Only about 3 weeks ago we here in San Diego were treated to a special ev ent; the first annual San Diego Gran Fondo fun ride, sponsored by Colnag o. Ernesto himself was here! He had been in the area for a few days and had been making the rounds of area Colnago dealers and signing all kinds of stuff. Rob O got some great photos with him and some great souvenirs from one of the bike shop visits. The ride was on Sunday; but those of us who were exhibitors got to attend the VIP dinner the night before at Po Pozzo restaurant in Little Italy, which was where the ride started an d ended. It was Ernesto's 77th Birthday that day, Feb.28. He is in good shape for his age. He is know as a man with unlimited energy. Each of us was presented with a book about Colnago and his bicycles, the whole sto ry! He then autographed each one for us personally. Matt Gorski and myse lf each have one. Matty took some photos of us at the dinner also.

Matt Gorski and Charles Andrews assembled an AMAZING display of their vi ntage Colnago collection for the Expo on Sunday. Ernesto spent the entir e day there and when Ernesto came by to look at the stuff, I could tell it really warmed his heart. The respect we have for the bikes was very c lear and Colnago responded. He was signing his autograph on the top tube s of many Colnagos all day long. We (David Ybarrola and myself) had our booth next to Matt and Charles to represent the San Diego Custom Bicycle Show. We had our own bikes but I also brought my 1970 Colnago (restored by me) and my Colnago replica track bike. I was a little concerned abou t what sort of reaction I would get from Ernesto for the replica, consid ering an incident I had with Ernesto at the New York Bike Show back in a bout 1983. (He was upset when he saw I frame I had on display which had a club cut in the bottom head lug, along with the heart, spade, and diam ond in the other lugs. Obviously he was mistaken about who has the right to use symbols that are public domain, but his lawyers straightened him out. I really got a good laugh, when he threatened to sue me.) That was then. With Ernesto was his grandson Alessandro who spoke some English a nd was taking photos of everything. Alessandro is the heir to the Colnag o company as I understand. Anyway, they looked over my replica of a 1971 Colnago track bike, there was a little discussion as they pointed out s ome of the details of the frame (including my embossed knife makers mark on the top of the chromed fork crown) and then he proceeded to autograp h the top tube! I was really surprised. I don't know if he thought it wa s a genuine Colnago or if he approved of it somehow. I didn't want to as k. But that was a great moment. I then asked him what year my 1970 (as f ar as we know) road bike was. I pointed out some of the details like the pattern of drilled holes in the BB as opposed to the club cutout and th e smaller sized club in the bottom head lug. He said the bike was from a bout 1965! I suspect that may not be correct, knowing the bike was sold in Peter Rich's shop Velo Sport no earlier than 1969 and most likely 197 0. He signed the top tube of that one also and he seemed to like the res toration.

Then he examined some of my bikes and took a lot of photos. I told him I make a few frames per year completely by hand and he seemed to apprecia te that. I handed him this track frame I just completed and he looked it over closely, checking inside the BB shell and stuff like that. Once he was finished, he did something rather unusual for an Italian framebuild er; he shook my hand and said "congratulations", which is Italian for "n ice job". That's exactly the word and gesture that Christiano DeRosa sai d to me at Interbike when we met there last year and he looked over the frame that now belongs to Charles Andrews. That really made my day! At t he end of the day when we were all packing up and getting ready to leave the Expo, Ernesto passed by one more time and made eye contact and gave me one more gesture, using only one digit on his hand. No, it wasn't th e extended middle finger; it was a big thumbs up and a wink with a smile ! That day was one of the most rewarding days I've ever had. I know that Matt and Charles also felt the special glow of having one of our heroes enjoy our efforts and the respect we have for the bikes.

Colnago signed on for 5 more years of sponsorship of the San Diego Gran Fondo. He was that impressed. We are now one of only 4 Gran Fondo locati ons worldwide. One is in Italy, one in France, one is held in South Afri ca, and now San Diego is included!

What a great experience! I have to admit, Colnago is still one of my fav orites, even though I had my training in the other camp at Masi.

Brian Baylis
La Mesa, CA

---------- Original Message ----------
From: Bianca Pratorius
To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
Subject: [CR] Colnago movie from Friday night's list
Date: Sat, 28 Mar 2009 05:03:18 -0400

It's nice that at least one bicycle manufacturer has made enough money

and has the foresight to have constructed a museum. I had not heard of

it before. Beautiful bikes , modern and on topic! It's good to see that

Ernesto has kept himself in such good shape all these years. This is a

must see movie.

Garth Libre in Miami Fl. USA


Gz8k822TggPUwBpWfpXKuRzsLGRearO/ _______________________________________________


Message: 7 Date: Sat, 28 Mar 2009 19:47:59 +0100 From: M-gineering <info@m-gineering.nl> Subject: Re: [CR] Bentleys, Bikes and team cars Cc: <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org> Message-ID: <49CE70DF.6010108@m-gineering.nl> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed

Jan Heine wrote:
> Does anybody know of similar influences of cars on bicycles in Britain
> or Italy? The Bentley Boys don't seem to have had much interest in
> bicycles... Perhaps they could have learned from cycle makers how to
> make sturdy machines that don't weigh two tons! (Nothing against vintage
> Bentleys, there are marvellous machines.)

Jan, you really should get out more, if you can ask such a question without mentioning Moulton ;)

Dr Moulton, designer of the rubber suspension of the BMC mini, started building the original Moulton with the support of Dunlop and BMC, and grew to be the second? largest bikeproducer in the UK in a few years.

Moulton did a special version of the NS for Bentley a few years back -- mvg

Marten Gerritsen Kiel Windeweer Netherlands


Message: 8 Date: Sat, 28 Mar 2009 15:01:01 -0400 From: <r7glm@aol.com> Subject: Re: [CR] Jerseys and Collars To: <chriskvalecycles@gmail.com>, <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>, <R7Glm@aol.com> Message-ID: <8CB7DEEABBA13DE-171C-2E73@WEBMAIL-DY39.sysops.aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

I stand corrected as additional information has been brought to my attentio n by another CR lister. David Beck graciously forwarded some links to photos as? well as a web site showing riders in Italy (probably before anyone else but mayb e not) wearing collared jerseys back?at least to 1935 in a quick scan of the site.?Interesting though that many pre-( and post) war Tour riders are seen using the non-collared jerseys. ?In any case,??I'm?on?a mission now to try and get an accurate timeline?regarding jerseys and?Chris' tire question. ?Any further information is appreciated.

Rex Gilmore Vienna, VA?

-----Original Message----- From: Chris Kvale <chriskvalecycles@gmail.com> To: r7glm@aol.com <r7glm@aol.com> Sent: Sat, 28 Mar 2009 2:33 pm Subject: Re: Jerseys and Collars

Hello Rex--

Thanks again for your research and observations. I have some history books and in my spare time (and I'll have some--it's really cold here this week, meaning not very much riding) I'll start looking at them. It appears my second question. about the carrying of tubulars over the shoulders, has not stimulated much response. Maybe another forum would be more appropriate. Thanks for the tip to Cyclingrevealed.

Best regards, Chris

On 3/28/09, r7glm@aol.com <r7glm@aol.com> wrote:
> After further, albeit obviously not exhaustive, research, including the use
> of CR lister Bret Horton's superb "Cycling's Golden Age", it is clear that
> the jersey timeline information I provided yesterday, while in general
> accurate, needs further clarification.
> It is pretty clear that prior to WWII most if not all jerseys, road and
> track were collarless with a crew/"turtleneck" appearance and no zippers or
> buttons. There may have been some collared jerseys but I cannot readily
> locate anything that indicates this. If there is evidence I 'd bet Bret has
> it though.
> Post WWII there appears to have been a mixture of both. It seems that th e
> collared jersey appeared as early as 1946, but collarless jerseys remained,
> but some now appearing with zippers. It seems that during the major tours,
> especially The Tour most riders used the collared jersey,usually with
> buttons, but some with zippers. In the other Grand tours it seems that
> while the collared jersey was predominant the collarless, zippered Jersey
> occurred more often (especially Italy - always the fashionistas!). As noted
> yesterday about 1960 the collarless, zippered jersey was also taking over in
> the tours, although there is a picture in Bret's book of Anquetil's 1963
> Vuelta "Amarillo" Jersey with a buttoned collar, so there was some hanging
> on. In single day races post WWII the collarless jersey, both zippered, and
> un zippered was pretty much the norm. However, there is also documentatio n
> of collared jerseys in single day races during the '50s.
> Why the changes? I believe it is two fold. As noted by another lister th e
> idea of neck protection from rubbing tires and probably the more readily
> available collared shirt as a result of increased production capabilitie s
> from WWII made the collared jersey popular. They also obviously provided
> better ventilation than a collarless jersey. However, as riders less and
> less wrapped tires around their upper bodies, probably due to better roads,
> tires and team support, the fashion moved back to the collarless jersey, but
> zippered to maintain ventilation. Certainly hypothetical on my part.
> I also want to mention that for those on this list who are in cycle racing
> history, and not aware of it, I suggest going to Cyclingrevealed.com. It
> focuses on the history of the grand tours and the 5 single day "Monuments"
> (PR, L-B-L, MSR, Giro de Lombardia, and Tour of landers) but includes inf o
> regarding other classic races. There is also a Trivia Quiz competition over
> the winter (just finished for the year). Highly recommended.
> Rex Gilmore
> Vienna, VA
> ________________________________
> A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps!


Message: 9 Date: Sat, 28 Mar 2009 15:49:29 -0400 From: <averyallen@aol.com> Subject: [CR] Sasha White Featured in Forbes Magazine - April 13, 2009 To: <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org> Message-ID: <8CB7DF570E6F3CE-E24-F43@WEBMAIL-DF02.sysops.aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Listers and Listees,

The April 13, 2009 edition of Forbes Magazine has a nice article about KOF frame builder Sasha White of Vanilla Bicycles.?? Check it out!

David Allen Marietta, Georgia near the Big Chicken



End of Classicrendezvous Digest, Vol 75, Issue 109 **************************************************