Re: [CR] contemporary 'vintage' panto parts

Example: Framebuilders:Mario Confente

From: Bruce Kwasha <>
To: <>
Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2009 06:17:52 -0400
Thread-Index: AcoDW4sDDKtt9D/SQTi88YzFYptiqAAQEtlw
In-Reply-To: <02fa01ca035b$8bc4fad0$a34ef070$@org>
Subject: Re: [CR] contemporary 'vintage' panto parts

I have dealt with this seller and he is very reputable and always accurate in his descriptions. He rarely comments on an items condition, but, in stead, typically provides excellent pictures so that one can draw one's own conclusion regarding an item's condition.

Regarding the classification of this item as NOS, my belief is that it is literally true. This seller often sells items that have been orphaned for many years on a dealer's shelf. They may be rusty and the leather may have deteriorated over the years, etc, but, they are literally NOS - new old stock that has never been mounted or used.

I have also dealt with other sellers who falsely use "NOS" to assist their sale without any regard to its veracity. I specifically remember one very renowned collector who sold me an NOS, "show quality" Cinelli steel stem. His pictures were few and of poor quality so that I had to rely on his word. The stem that I received was in excellent condition, but it had wrench marks on its nut and bolt. Also a pair of NOS Clement tubs that he sold me were mismatched (one tandem tire and one regular) and one of the tire's base tape was torn.

These transactions occurred simultaneously, so I did not yet know not to trust the seller's descriptions. When I questioned him, his general response was "buyer beware". Some sellers believe in full disclosure; others will attempt to get away with outright fraud! Their belief is that if you don't specifically ask a question, than the problem is yours. I had not asked if the "Clement tipo #9s" were matched, so the problem was mine. I was not aware that Clement produced a #9 regular and a #9 tandem.

Different strokes - I guess, but don't assume that your fellow hobbyist uses the same rules that you do - caveat emptor!

Bruce Kwasha Atlanta, Georgia

-----Original Message----- From: [] On Behalf Of Mark Petry Sent: Sunday, July 12, 2009 9:45 PM To: Subject: Re: [CR] contemporary 'vintage' panto parts

Commenting on "vintage parts and Ebay buyers/sellers" George wrote :

> In vintage bike collecting this practice is not limited to just
> pantographing parts, but faking entire bikes and now even inventing
> provenance.

Agreed - look at this and tell me if you think the seller needs to re-think the definition of NOS &item=360168157535

Mark Petry

Bainbridge Island, WA