Brian Baylis wrote: I don't know what all the number will tell you; especially if you can't ride each of the bikes for a while to see how they work for you. As always, the variables are nearly infinite. Each person may have different tastes and standards. That's why I asked to ride one. If you like it, it's good. If you don't, find something else. I don't know how many times I've seen someone off a bike because they didn't like it, to hear from the next owner how awesome the bike is. I think it's really time to let this stuff go. It opens a can of worms every time, the discussion gets long winded and out of hand, lots of people waste some time. What is the point? I know this list is partially entertainment and somewhat social; but nothing ever changes during these "discussions". Find what fits, find out a little about what you like, and get on with riding the suckers! It's clear we all have somewhat individual tastes, perspectives, and needs. Let's not try ot over analyze the impossible.
He sure raises some vary valid points. When I laud the ride of a bike, I am not so naïve that I dont realize that Im discussing the configuration of the bike and what it was intended for at least nearly as much as who made it. There are certain qualities I do not care for in a bike. Harsh uncomfortable (as I perceive it) ride, twitchy or too quick steering, instability, especially during fast descents and I dont like to have to constantly make those tiny subconscious steering adjustments which I believe are so tiring on longish rides. It certainly is not the case that the same builder cannot build different configurations of a bike. Some builders I really like have produced bikes that I really did not care for to ride, even if they were exceptionally beautiful. Other bikes by the same builders have been some of my favorites. I find that some builders seem to more consistently build bikes whose ride I love. Assenmacher, Sachs, Peter Mooney, Kvale and occasionally others. A big part of this somewhat subjective ride quality is also to be found in the alignment of the bikes. Any bikes seems to do better if aligned properly. Many are not.
Now does this variability make it pointless to discuss ride qualities in various bikes? I sure hope not! It really is such a critical factor in enjoying riding a bike. Nor, do I believe that discussing something needs to change that item being discussed. Sure it is nice when it happens, but some things just do not change especially after they have been produced and aged for a few decades. This social aspect of our hobby is one of the crucial elements for the sense of community many of us treasure in our hobby.
It may do well to state just what we are ascribing ride qualities to, though, just as Brian says. It really strains things a bit when comparing apples to oranges and not letting others know what we are talking about.
I find I like a comfy, stable bike with a great deal of stability especially during those fast descents, and I still want to be able to put it practically on its side in an emergency maneuver and l be able to bring it back up with a powerful pedal stroke. This is not all ant ethical to precise handling and is certainly worth discussion among folks of good will. Some builders just seem to build more of these bikes and I love em for it.
Tom Sanders
Lansing, MI USA