I went over to the storage and checked out two bikes.
First was the circa 1974 Raleigh Competition. It has a 49-38 TA Professional (3-arm) crank and a 14-28 FW. Dropouts are Huret. The short cage Jubilee clears the 28T cog with no problem, looks like one might even get away with a 30T, but just barely. With the 49T large ring, there is room to wrap a bit more chain. I could almost surely have gone to 51-38, probably 52-38, at least if one accepts that the large-large and small-small will not be useable.
Even more amazing is the second bike, one of those strange mid-70's Gitanes that are said to be the Tour de France model, although they are marked "Gitane Racing Team" or such like. This particular bike may actualy be a separate touring variation, as it came with mudguards and Huret derailleurs and shifters including a Svelto RD. The Svelto was kind of the ugly cousin of the Jubilee, with an extremely similar design and geometry, but without the polished finished and with several steel bits.
The frame has Huret DO's like the Raleigh. Amazingly, the Svelto is handling a 14-32 FW, even though the Svelto dimensions don't seem much different from a short cage Jubilee. Even more amazing, it is handling a Stronglight 93 53-38. I think Billy may have hit on an important point below - it seems the Huret DO's allow the use of a larger FW cog than Campy DO's. I never thought about this point before, but it makes perfect sense. So the answer to Richard's original question may be that a short cage Jubilee will comfortably handle a 28T large cog IF USED ON HURET DO's. On Campy DO's one might be limited to a smaller cog. This makes me wonder about my French bikes on which a Simplex short cage RD can handle a 52-38 x 14-28. I've attributed this the Simplex RD, but most of these bikes also have Simplex DO's. Anyone ever measure the distance from center of DO to center of RD hanger hole on a Simplex DO? Perhaps Simplex DO's, like Huret, had more "drop" than Campy. This makes sense, as Campy has always been heavily influenced by racing, only occasionally coming up with first rate touring gear, while Huret and Simplex were probably as interested in the touring market as in racing.
Even though I don't recall the issue of large cog size versus brand of DO being discussed here before, I would think most of the framebuilders must be aware of this issue. Any of the framebuilders have speced Huret or Simplex DO's in preferenec to Campy on touring frames? Now that Huret and Simplex DO's are history, does anyone today make large "drop" DO's to allow a larger FW cog for touring?
Regards,
Jerry Moos
Big Spring, Texas, USA
> From: billydavid13@comcast.net <billydavid13@comcast.net>
> Subject: Re: [CR] Huret Drop-outs w/ Hanger Taller than Campag-style?
> To: "Jerome & Elizabeth Moos" <jerrymoos@sbcglobal.net>
> Cc: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
> Date: Saturday, September 12, 2009, 1:45 PM
> #yiv2100211186 p
> {margin:0;}Hi
> Jerry, Richard, all. Here's what i got from my box of
> Jubilee rears. All 6, including one long cage, have pivots
> that are 30mm apart; pulley centers are approx. 43mm for the
> short cage and approx.83 for the long cage. Axle center on a
> Campy dropout to der. mounting hole is approx.
> 24mm. For a Huret dropout it's 28.5mm. This might
> explain why the "Itallienne" configuration is
> only rated to a 24 tooth cog. The derailleur that's made
> for a Huret dropout has vertical stop just below the
> attachment [upper pivot] bolt. [Photo shows 2 versions of
> these, one slightly more robust but not significantly
> different. The one made for Campy d/os has a stop to the
> rear of the upper pivot bolt hole [on the left in
> photo]. BUT, the first type was available w/ a tabbed washer
> that made it adaptable to a Campy d/o, and workable w/ a
> Huret d/o if you removed it. So, perhaps the first ref
> # is the one w/ the Campy adaptor, the second is dedicated
> for Huret d/os and gives more teeth because the Huret d/o is
> 4.5mm longer; and the 3rd ref. is dedicated Campy type
> d/o. I'll be sending pics to Jerry and Richard.
> Anyone else who's interested, let me
> know. Billy Ketchum; Chicago, IL;
> USA.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jerome & Elizabeth Moos"
> <jerrymoos@sbcglobal.net>
> To: billydavid13@comcast.net
> Sent: Saturday, September 12, 2009 11:14:03 AM GMT -06:00
> US/Canada Central
> Subject: Re: [CR] Huret Drop-outs w/ Hanger Taller than
> Campag-style?
>
> Billy, do you have a link to catalogs with exploded
> drawings? I thought both the Huret and Campy version
> of the Jubilee used a stop incorporated into the body rather
> than using a tabbed washer like most Huret RD's.
> But I have to confess, I'm not sure I actually own
> a Campy version. Seems if they used a tabbed washer
> they would simply have designed the washer to adapt the
> Huret-version RD to Campy DO's, in which case they
> wouldn't have needed a separate version RD with a
> different catalog number. But then, we are talking
> about the French here, so anything is possible.
>
> Regards,
>
> Jerry Moos
>
>
>
> --- On Sat, 9/12/09, billydavid13@comcast.net
> <billydavid13@comcast.net> wrote:
>
> > From: billydavid13@comcast.net
> <billydavid13@comcast.net>
> > Subject: Re: [CR] Huret Drop-outs w/ Hanger Taller
> than Campag-style?
> > To: "r cielec" <teaat4p@yahoo.com>
> > Cc: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
> > Date: Saturday, September 12, 2009, 11:05 AM
> > Hi Richard. I pulled out
> > Sutherland's, 2nd ed. and here's what they
> offer: Jubilee
> > 2200 [short cage]; w/ 32-52 chainwheels: 13-24.
> w/36-52
> > chainwheels: 13-26. w/40-52 chainwheels: 13-28.
> It's
> > possible the Huret catalog just got the chainwheel
> sizes
> > wrong. But that begs the question as to why they have
> 2 ref.
> > nos. Which, in turn, begs the question why there are
> no
> > separate illustrations for the 2 ref. nos. I trust
> > Sutherland's and Jerry Moos' observation that
> the short cage
> > will handle a 28 if it doesn't have too much chain
> to wrap.
> > Billy Ketchum; Chicago, IL; USA.
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "r cielec" <teaat4p@yahoo.com>
> >
> > To: "Classic Rendezvous"
> <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>
> >
> > Sent: Saturday, September 12, 2009 9:15:50 AM GMT
> -06:00
> > US/Canada Central
> > Subject: [CR] Huret Drop-outs w/ Hanger Taller than
> > Campag-style?
> >
> > Ahoy !
> > The recent revelation that Huret Jubilee rear ders,
> short
> > cage and long cage were both offered in rear sprocket
> max.
> > 24t and 28t versions has certainly got me wondering
> > (A) If Huret drop-outs w/ der. hanger are taller than
> the
> > Campag-style drop-outs w/der. hanger. That is: does
> the
> > Huret der. hanger hang lower? Would a lower hanger
> allow the
> > otherwise spec'sd 24t Jubilee to now handle
> a 28t? (The
> > Campag version Jubilee rear was spec'd @ 24t).
> >
> > Also:
> > (B) I'm wondering how one identifies the 24t vs.
> 28t
> > Jubilee (Keep in mind: as per the catalogues, there
> were
> > shorts @ 24t & 28t and longies @ 24t & 28t so,
> cage
> > length is not the discriminating feature.
> >
> > Thanks
> >
> > Richard Cielec
> > Chicago, Illinois; U.S.A.
> >
> >
> >
> >
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