Re: [CR] ebay outing: amazing carlton - fake, fake, fake

(Example: Framebuilding)

To: <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>
Date: Sat, 3 Oct 2009 20:19:37 -0700
From: donald gillies <gillies@ece.ubc.ca>
Cc: chasds@mindspring.com, gwlone@yahoo.ca
Subject: Re: [CR] ebay outing: amazing carlton - fake, fake, fake


I have a 1950 flyer and I've seen massed starts and super pythons on ebay, and of course I saved the photos in my archive of Carlton Art. This is a beautiful bike, just beautiful. But it's certainly not a 1950's Massed Start bike. It could possibly be an early 1960's bike of some sort.

I'll tell you just why this bike is a fake.

1. First, bikes in the 50's era had a different seat tube decal. Even though reproductions of that vintage seat tube decal are available from Nick at Lloyds, I'll can tell you exactly why the painter didn't use the reproductions, assuming he knew what he was doing. The painter used a 2nd head tube decal because the seat tube decal SHOULD contain THE MODEL NAME within the seat tube decal to be authentic.

My 1950 Carlton Flyer says "FLYER" within the decal. Another 50's bike says "SUPER PYTHON" within the decal.

Pix available on request.

2. My 1950 Carlton flyer is reynolds 531 throughout, but more importantly, its freak'in light, a 1900 grams frame for a 23" sized frame. The 531 decal used on my bike is the "thumbnail" sized decal that just says '531'. It doesn't have all the B.S. contained on the decal in the auction.

3. More importantly, where's the frick'in 'Carlton' script decal that belongs on the top tube or downtube, much like what Raleigh adopted in the 70's? What Raleigh adopted in the 70's, Carlton was doing in the 50's.

Excuse my french. I have MADE copies of this decal PRECISELY BECAUSE its so difficult to find. SSSINK.com doesn't make it. The bike should not have block letters on the downtube, it should be script letters, just like on my 1950 Carlton Flyer, and like the early 1960's Carlton Franco-Suisse that I am turning a Raleigh International into ...

- Don Gillies
San Diego, CA, USA