Re: [CR] ebay outing: amazing carlton - fake, fake, fake

(Example: Framebuilding:Paint)

From: "Charles Andrews" <>
To: donald gillies <>
References: <>
Date: Sat, 3 Oct 2009 23:37:18 -0700
Subject: Re: [CR] ebay outing: amazing carlton - fake, fake, fake

points taken.

I should know these things, but did not, in this case.

Charles Andrews Los Angeles --who'll stick to italian frames I don't know enough about, from now on--

----- Original Message -----
From: donald gillies

<> Sent: Saturday, October 03, 2009 8:19 PM Subject: Re: [CR] ebay outing: amazing carlton - fake, fake, fake

> I have a 1950 flyer and I've seen massed starts and super pythons on
> ebay, and of course I saved the photos in my archive of Carlton Art.
> This is a beautiful bike, just beautiful. But it's certainly not a
> 1950's Massed Start bike. It could possibly be an early 1960's bike
> of some sort.
> I'll tell you just why this bike is a fake.
> 1. First, bikes in the 50's era had a different seat tube decal.
> Even though reproductions of that vintage seat tube decal are
> available from Nick at Lloyds, I'll can tell you exactly why the
> painter didn't use the reproductions, assuming he knew what he was
> doing. The painter used a 2nd head tube decal because the seat
> tube decal SHOULD contain THE MODEL NAME within the seat tube
> decal to be authentic.
> My 1950 Carlton Flyer says "FLYER" within the decal.
> Another 50's bike says "SUPER PYTHON" within the decal.
> Pix available on request.
> 2. My 1950 Carlton flyer is reynolds 531 throughout, but more
> importantly, its freak'in light, a 1900 grams frame for a 23"
> sized frame. The 531 decal used on my bike is the "thumbnail"
> sized decal that just says '531'. It doesn't have all the
> B.S. contained on the decal in the auction.
> 3. More importantly, where's the frick'in 'Carlton' script decal that
> belongs on the top tube or downtube, much like what Raleigh
> adopted in the 70's? What Raleigh adopted in the 70's, Carlton
> was doing in the 50's.
> Excuse my french. I have MADE copies of this decal PRECISELY
> BECAUSE its so difficult to find. doesn't make it.
> The bike should not have block letters on the downtube, it should
> be script letters, just like on my 1950 Carlton Flyer, and like
> the early 1960's Carlton Franco-Suisse that I am turning a Raleigh
> International into ...
> - Don Gillies
> San Diego, CA, USA