Re: [CR] Francisco Cuevas photos up on Wool Jersey and questions and now Pepe Limongi and who copied whom and all that

(Example: Framebuilders:Pino Morroni)

Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2009 12:43:49 -0400
From: "David G. White" <>
To: <>
References: <>
Subject: Re: [CR] Francisco Cuevas photos up on Wool Jersey and questions and now Pepe Limongi and who copied whom and all that

Hi Steve,

Even before the posting from you today, I was convinced it was a genuine Cuevas. Once I'd gotten over my mis-impression about the spelling of his first name!

Cool bike, congrats on the acquisition. Early, less refined examples of an artisan's work can often be more interesting than their later work.


David (maybe I'll take a ride on my Cuevas today!)

David G. White Burlington, VT wrote:
> Jerry Moos wrote:
> <We had a recent thread about Cuevas, including an eBay bike that was
> claime=
> d to be owned but not built by Francisco.
> Back to the Cuevas, note it demonstrates several Cuevas signatures,
> includi=
> ng the fluted, semi-wraparound seatstays, which are very similar to those
> u=
> sed by Pepe Limongi, who was building frames for Paris Sport at the same
> ti=
> me as Cuevas.=A0 Wonder who copied who?=A0 Also the distinctive junctions
> o=
> f the satys to the DO's, the high peak on the seatlug, and the cross
> reinfo=
> rcement under the steerer tube.>
> My conclusion is that Limongi copied Cuevas. Last night I opened the box
> with the tall Fancisco Cuevas that was on eBay several weeks ago. It IS
> an original paint and decal bike, 1973 I think (Pat '73 derailleur) very
> lightly ridden and the paint is in excellent condition. I haven't checked
> the hub locknut dates yet.
> After seeing it there is absolutely no question in my mind that it is a
> Cuevas and I don't believe anyone about anything (that's what I get paid
> to do for a living). Clearly some details do differ a bit than those
> recently discussed. Most importantly the seat stay caps are flat, plain
> like a late 60's Masi Special, with NO wrap around. NO extension on the
> seat tube lug point. Head lugs look just like the ones on this 1970
> Cuevas track bike below:
> Lug filing is exactly the same as above, that is to say crisp but not much
> lug thinning. Downtube decal is exactly the same as on the above bike.
> Again, the seat lug is the same WITHOUT the wrap. Stay treatment at the
> rear drouputs is very similar to this track bike(sort of Rene Herse'ish)
> rather than the swallow tail style on David White's Cuevas on the
> Wolljersey gallery below:
> Color is exactly the same blue as David White's Cuevas as is the
> contrasting gold paint in the lug windows and the Reynolds 531 decaling.
> Fork end treatment at the dropouts is exactly the same as David' bike as
> is the fork crown and curve (rake), but no fork blade stiffeners and no
> cross reinforcement in the steerer tube. Pressed bottom bracket shell,
> reinforced rear brake bridge with the reinforcements upside down (to my
> eye), that is the long point on the reinforcement points up rather than
> down.
> So there you have it, I think it's the real deal even though there are
> contrasting details, an early example of Cuevas work here in the US
> certainly before he joined Paris Sport and arguably before he was
> influenced by Limongi if that's how things went down. Not as refined or
> pretty as David's bike or other later Cuevas examples that folks have
> discussed but clean workmanship and kinda cool in a simplistic way, like
> the white Cuevas track bike in the first link above is really cool.
> I'll try to bring it to the Cirq next year but it's so big I'm not sure
> it'll fit in my car.
> Or any car for that matter.
> Steve Kinne
> New York, NY USA
> -----------------------------------------
> ******************************************************************
> This E-mail is confidential. It may also be legally privileged. If
> you are not the addressee you may not copy, forward, disclose or
> use any part of it. If you have received this message in error,
> please delete it and all copies from your system and notify the
> sender immediately by return E-mail.
> Internet communications cannot be guaranteed to be timely, secure,
> error or virus-free. The sender does not accept liability for any
> errors or omissions.
> ******************************************************************