Re: [CR] Holy Grail Cinelli Paint is Original

(Example: Racing)

From: "John Barron" <>
To: <>
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Date: Sun, 1 Nov 2009 11:28:19 -0600
Thread-Index: AcpbFWPIypgdj3FDSwi/3wP+OjC1cAAArCEQ
Subject: Re: [CR] Holy Grail Cinelli Paint is Original

Brian raises great points and I respect his expertise. The NOS early 70's Cinelli I owned exhibited obvious yellowing only in areas where there may have been residual grease. But, it could be that there was an overall yellowing that only would be apparent if my bike where side-by-side with a freshly painted one.

Greg Softley- could we trouble you to ask your friend if his eBay Cinelli has been repainted to his knowledge?

John Barron Minneapolis MN USA

-----Original Message----- From: [] Sent: Sunday, November 01, 2009 11:03 AM To: Cc: Subject: Re: [CR] Holy Grail Cinelli Paint is Original


Just to set the record straight, it's not difficult for any painter, and especially a really good painter with experience in applying thin paint films, to allow the file marks to show on old Cinellis. It's actually hard not to! Silver paint is especially telling of surface defects. As a matter of fact I think the silver metallic paint amplified the file marks, since one does generally not see them on Cinellis of different non metallic colors. I have even had a complaint or two after doing a Cinelli that I didn't remove all the file marks. My response is "that's how they were as original, that's how I do them". It looks proper. All it would take is some putty work and they would be gone; but you'd be surprised how wrong it looks on an old Cinelli. You are correct though; no painter I know would purposely do a "factory sloppy" job of the red trim paint. I draw the line there. I don't obsess by trying to make them perfect; but it's not difficult to do a reasonably nice job of it and still not have it look out of place.

Regarding polishing out all of the yellowing on original paint, can't be done. It will remove the thin clear and then the silver is exposed. Actually, that clear breaks down over time no matter what. One could polish a lot of it off and reclear; but still evidence of the yellowing would be present. I tend to think that paint is too silver to be original from the period. If it has been cleared over ( I don't think that is the case here) it's technically NOT original. I have simulated the yellowing on a few touch ups, which is also do able. In addition, the original bikes did not have clear over the foil decals, only over the DT and ST crest. Original bikes almost always have some lifting or peeling of the foil decals. They can be removed and replaced with new foil decals and it would be proper; but I've never seen such a case. The foil decal removal almost always takes the clear under it off also. It's a bucket of worms. In this case I still suspect a repaint; but the decals used were not reproductions, they appear to be original (based on the fact that the printing on the seat crest is not perfect, which is common on the original decals.

If the seller is telling the truth and it really is original. I'd like to hear how it was kept in that condition. I'm pretty sure even if a Cinelli was taken from brand new, sealed in plastic, and then stored in a place with no light; it still would not look like that one. The clear ages all by itself. The other option would be to come clean; which doesn't seem to happen too often on eBay when someone is trying to get big bucks out of a fairly common bike. Also, explain the condition and out of period aspect of the headbadge under the circumstances.

I'm ready to listen. But until I hear some explanations, it still looks like a repaint to me. It wouldn't be very difficult to intentionally do a sloppy factory type trim job if one was trying to pull something off. I could tell if the bike was sitting in front of me.

Brian Baylis La Mesa, CA STILL not a fan of eBay; although without it, we wouldn't have these "interesting" debates.

---------- Original Message ----------
From: John Barron
Subject: [CR] Holy Grail Cinelli Paint is Original
Date: Sun, 01 Nov 2009 09:53:11 -0600

After reading Mark Petry's post about the file marks showing on the BB shell, and observing the sloppy red highlights fill in the round openings in the BB shell and elsewhere, I am convinced that this bike has original paint.

Despite the talents of many painters around the world, I have never seen casting marks, or file marks show through the paint on resprayed frames.

Moreover, there isn't a (re)painter on the planet who would do such a nice repaint, but glop the red paint so sloppily in the lug holes.

All the original Cinellis I've seen have sloppy highlight fill, and most have bubbles in areas near the bottom bracket shell.

I agree with Brian that a certain amount of yellowing will occur on original paint from that era. I have seen this particularly where clamps are- on the top tube, and for the shifters on the downtube, but I think that this can be polished away... maybe not, but regardless- I believe that the paint on that silver Cinelli is original.

John Barron Minneapolis MN, USA

PS- Cinelli Model B's from at least as early as the mid-50's have the typical Cinelli fastback seatstay design.


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