Re: [CR] Spocalc : Not necessary for Vintage Tubular rims?

(Example: Framebuilding)

From: "Schmid" <>
To: 'donald gillies' <>, <>
Date: Mon, 2 Nov 2009 16:53:28 +0100
In-Reply-To: <>
Subject: Re: [CR] Spocalc : Not necessary for Vintage Tubular rims?

Don and List, No, just had the experience yesterday as I bult up a set of wheels on old steel barrel Campa hubs with Scheeren wood-filled rims. Those babies weigh just a mere 300grams but need long nipples with a flat head that sticks out of the glue bed otherwise. Measuring was not easy but i made it. They will go on my Cinelli B from the fifties (no exact date possible) But other than those special rims and concerning Mavic, Wolbers, Gimondis, Fiammes etc. you might be right.


Michael Schmid Oberammergau Germany Tel.: +49 8821 798790 Fax.:+49 8821 798791 mail:

-----Urspr√ľngliche Nachricht----- Von: [] Im Auftrag von donald gillies Gesendet: Sonntag, 1. November 2009 23:40 An: Betreff: [CR] Spocalc : Not necessary for Vintage Tubular rims?

I have been thinking about building up a tubular wheel, and it occurred to me that, because the tire bed diameter of tubular tires has to be the same (unlike clinchers where the tube can expand to fill a deep-V type of rim, rim-tape-length has to be essentially standard).

If you are using short nipples, then, you shouldn't need a program like Spocalc to calculate spoke length on vitage tubular rims. About all you should need is (a) X-Cross-ed-ness, and (a) Flange Type (Small, Medium, Large). You wouldn't need Rim height in the vintage era, because the 'aero craze' had not arrived, and most rims were about 15mm tall, more or less?

So if you take an ERD of 622 mm, and intend to have the spoke tip seat 3 mm below the tire bed, then you could use 616mm for ERD for just about all tubular rims in the vintage era, couldn't you?

Is this true? Do any of you have a chart on the wall somewhere with roughly 16 spoke sizes?


Small Flange Large Flange Front Rear Front eRear 1-cross 2-cross 3-cross 4-cross

- Don Gillies San Diego, CA, USA _______________________________________________