Must have been 2 people wanting that size pretty bad. I have the same bike with the Stronglight 49d cranks. I'll be cleaning it and listing at ebay or my website soon..
Ben Cole
Springfield IL
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>
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> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
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>
>
> CR
>
> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. FS: Smart Move book - damaged copies (Jan Heine)
> 2. Frejus (jim abt)
> 3. Re: Frejus (jim abt)
> 4. Patelli "SPECIAL" frameset photos posted to Wool Jersey
> (Kevin Kruger)
> 5. Fat 700x28s on narrow Weinmann Concave Rims? (Jan Heine)
> 6. Re: Frejus -new question (Robert Goughary)
> 7. any idea why this 1970s Motobecane went for over $1500??
> (Via Bicycle)
> 8. ebay: Do older Simplex LJ shifters fit Campi-style BOs?
> (Jon Spangler)
> 9. Re: Bernard Carre frame on French Ebay (Jerome & Elizabeth Moos)
> 10. Query on Campagnolo Down Tube Shifters (Strickler, George M)
> 11. Re: any idea why this 1970s Motobecane went for over $1500??
> (George Allen)
> 12. Re: Baines Flying Gate (Jerome & Elizabeth Moos)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Tue, 17 Nov 2009 07:26:45 -0800
> From: Jan Heine <heine94@earthlink.net>
> Subject: [CR] FS: Smart Move book - damaged copies
> To: <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>
> Message-ID: <a062309eac7287129d23b@[72.244.203.100]>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
>
> Smart Move is a book about weird, odd and otherwise fascinating
> bikes, from classics like the Flying Gate and the Moulton to oddities
> like a bike that folds into a suitcase - or is it a suitcase with
> fold-out wheels, cranks and handlebars that can be ridden? Quite a
> few classic machines are included as well, all beautifully
> photographed.
>
> We received a few Smart Move books that were damaged during shipping.
> Nothing serious, just slightly bumped corners. The damage isn't
> serious, just bumped corners. In most bookstores, the book would be
> sold as new, but we want to sell them at full price, nor send them
> back to Austria.
>
> So we are offering them at 33% off ($50 instead of $75). (Credit card
> or PayPal payment only.) First come first served, and please don't
> ask to see photos of the bumped corners... We already aren't making
> any money on these.
>
> For more information, see
>
> http://www.vintagebicyclepress.com/
>
> Jan Heine
> Editor
> Bicycle Quarterly
> 2116 Western Ave.
> Seattle WA 98121
> http://www.vintagebicyclepress.com
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Tue, 17 Nov 2009 09:30:47 -0600
> From: jim abt <jamesabt@charter.net>
> Subject: [CR] Frejus
> To: <Classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>
> Message-ID: <3F2CAA24445241FEA2337171A9617A18@D7YXN561>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> Thanks Jay: That is very interesting and you bet I would love to see the
> photos if you don't mind. I am very familiar with the ride of these bikes.
> I ride a later model that I screwed up on the rebuild and refinish but it
> turned out pretty none the less....I love the ride of this bike and I may
> just land up dieing with it. I already have people promising me they will
> make room for it when they bury me #140360313550 on Ebay. Thanks again and
> I hope to talk to you soon. seeya
>
>
> Jim Abt
> Wausau, Wi. USA
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Tue, 17 Nov 2009 09:36:05 -0600
> From: jim abt <jamesabt@charter.net>
> Subject: Re: [CR] Frejus
> To: <Classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>
> Message-ID: <569ECCE4439E4E76963CA5BCB5D93321@D7YXN561>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> Thanks Pete: I used that chart before and it is very handy despite all of
> the question marks on it. I think my assesment of the 1962 model is fairly
> accurate. But can you tell me if it is true that Campy stamped the year of
> manufacture on their hub lock nuts? I heard that somewhere and I think
> that it may have very well been on this string but let me know if you
> know. Thanks...seeya
>
>
> Jim Abt
> Wausau, Wi. USA
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Tue, 17 Nov 2009 07:43:57 -0800
> From: Kevin Kruger <ktk1_7_0_2_8@yahoo.com>
> Subject: [CR] Patelli "SPECIAL" frameset photos posted to Wool Jersey
> To: George Hollenberg MD <ghollmd@gmail.com>,
> <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>
> Message-ID: <929792.17004.qm@web31406.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> Just posted photos of a recently purchased PATELLI "SPECIAL" frameset to
> Wool Jersey.? Estimated age is late 1960s.? Built in Bologna, Italy.
>
> Patelli is a marque that is new to me, with the only information I could
> currently find are some later catalogs on the Bulgier site.? A list member
> informed me that he has some Patelli literature, but has not been able to
> locate it yet.? I also recently purchased an "S. PATELLI" (Sergio Patelli)
> pantographed first generation Campagnolo Super Record seatpost for use on
> this frame, even though the date is most likely several years later than
> the frame age.
>
> There is very limited information on Patelli in the CR list archives, and
> I would greatly appreciate any information that can be shared regarding
> Patelli.
>
> If interested, photos of the frameset may be viewed at the following Wool
> Jersey address:
>
> http://www.wooljersey.com/
>
> Thanks in advance for any information that can be provided.
>
> Kevin Kruger - Grantville, PA
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Tue, 17 Nov 2009 07:48:00 -0800
> From: Jan Heine <heine94@earthlink.net>
> Subject: [CR] Fat 700x28s on narrow Weinmann Concave Rims?
> To: <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>
> Message-ID: <a062309edc728756ad174@[72.244.203.100]>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
>
>>FWIW: I've been using Rigida rims, similar to the currently
>>available from Jan Heine Grand Bois rims, similar to old Super
>>Champion M58 - no hooks at all
>
> Both the Super Champion M58 and the Grand Bois rims do have hook
> beads. The photos of the Grand Bois rims don't show the hooks very
> well - they are hard to photograph without cutting a rim in half -
> but they are there.
>
> Jan Heine
> Editor
> Bicycle Quarterly
> 2116 Western Ave.
> Seattle WA 98121
> http://www.vintagebicyclepress.com
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Tue, 17 Nov 2009 07:57:12 -0800
> From: Robert Goughary <goughary@yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: [CR] Frejus -new question
> To: <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>, Jay S <jvs@sonic.net>
> Message-ID: <869066.49405.qm@web111311.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
>
> Question on the narrow handlebars - When I restored my 50's italian
> mysterbike last year, I used 38cm bars - which are pretty narrow for me -
> but, I kept hearing that's how these bikes were configured/ridden, so I
> wanted to build it in as close to real shape as possible to see how it
> rides. etc...
>
> I'm now wondering if it was possible that 38's were all that common,
> though I love this bike and it's wierd qwerks - can anyone shed light on
> the configuration/geometry of these older bikes?
>
> Thanks
>
> Rob Gougahry
> Stamford, CT USA
>
>
>
>
>
> --- On Tue, 11/17/09, Jay S <jvs@sonic.net> wrote:
>
>> From: Jay S <jvs@sonic.net>
>> Subject: [CR] Frejus
>> To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
>> Date: Tuesday, November 17, 2009, 1:27 AM
>> Jim,
>>
>> I have that same exact frame / bicycle.???I
>> bought mine from list member Steven Maasland, who if I
>> recall (and I could be wrong) got it from J.P.? I
>> believe it's an early 60's, so your assessment of the date
>> is accurate.? Mine was completely original and in a sad
>> state.? I very carefully and painstakingly refurbished
>> it using all that parts that were on the bike.? I can
>> send you photos if you like of the bike and components so
>> you know how it looks in it's original
>> configuration.???It's a pretty cool bike with
>> mojo up the yin yang.? Even rides pretty well, if you
>> like reeeeally narrow handlebars.
>>
>> Jay Sexton
>> Sebastopol,? CA
>>
>>
>> Message: 13
>> Date: Mon, 16 Nov 2009 21:29:51 -0700
>> From: John <jtperry330@me.com>
>> Subject: Re: [CR] Frejus
>> To: jim abt <jamesabt@charter.net>
>> Cc: Classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
>> Message-ID: <226BB512-753B-4314-A67F-494ADFF73793@me.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII";
>> format=flowed; delsp=yes
>>
>> Jim,
>> ??? She is not rare; you'll need allot of
>> numbers if your gonna start? counting.? Tour model
>> was second in line to the Professional? model?
>> ? ? ? ???( which is not really
>> "rare" either).? Figure she? dates just post 1950
>> from the seat sticker.? The headtube badges had?
>> the years listed winning the worlds; at least on the pro
>> models.? Non? campy rear dropouts are the giveaway
>> to hierarchy.
>> Cool, sell or build and enjoy.
>> Funny, I've only scene the Tour models in this
>> bronze/maroon "Team"? color combo, but NEVER a pro
>> model.
>> ??? The list meister has a Frejus city bike
>> in this color combo that I? sold him.? Look for
>> her on the site.
>> ??? Now if ya find a pro in team colors,
>> well that's a story!
>>
>>
>> John Pergolizzi
>> San Diego, Ca
>> Soon to live in TORINO!
>>
>>
>> On Nov 16, 2009, at 9:39 PM, jim abt wrote:
>>
>>
>> > > I had the person that sold me this bike tell me
>> that this was a 1955? > Frejus. The
>> identicifications signs on the bike (sine you can not?
>> > track the serial number effecitvely that I know
>> of....says that bike? > is a 1962 or 1963). There
>> are stamps on the Campy hub lock nuts that? >
>> describe the year of the hubs (I think) and there is a stamp
>> on the? > steer tube of the fork with the initials
>> TDF 62. Can you guys tell? > me if I am tracking the
>> year properly? That way I will not have to? > rely
>> on the sellers word.
>> > >
>> > > The other thing is I am attaching is a photo link
>> (item #? > 140360537831 on Ebay) so that members can
>> look to see if they have a? > frame like it or have
>> seen anyone with one. I am trying to count how? >
>> many there are and how rare it is. I feel that it may be. I
>> guess? > what I am trying? to do is
>> authenticate my ad for selling the? >
>> thing.....thanks
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > Jim Abt
>> > > Wausau, Wi. USA
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 7
> Date: Tue, 17 Nov 2009 11:10:14 -0500
> From: Via Bicycle <viabicycle@gmail.com>
> Subject: [CR] any idea why this 1970s Motobecane went for over $1500??
> To: CLASSIC RENDEZVOUS <Classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>
> Message-ID:
> <755971e20911170810l12c3a6ffm5499b81ceb1c9ccb@mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"
>
> ebay auction-
> http://ebay.com/
> or item #180430263984
>
> just a stock 1970s Moto. nothing special. it is clean, and has been
> cleaned. but there is nothing special about it? we have 2 here at the
> shop right now.
> I was shocked when I saw it on Ebay at $900, but even more atontished at
> $1500+.
>
> Funny seeing "more desirable" bikes sell for a lot less. I am kind of
> weary to put a couplejack taylors on Ebay now, seeing that there is
> more demand for bike boom era mass produced bikes, then custom or
> semicustom bikes. Let me comb the rafters for Gitanes and the like.
>
> joel flood
> philadelphia, PA
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 8
> Date: Tue, 17 Nov 2009 08:50:36 -0800
> From: Jon Spangler <jonswriter@att.net>
> Subject: [CR] ebay: Do older Simplex LJ shifters fit Campi-style BOs?
> To: Dale Brown <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>
> Message-ID: <A062C350-3EC7-4DFC-8330-CE837A54C10E@att.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"; delsp=yes; format=flowed
>
> Listers,
>
> Found an interesting-looking set of LJ shift levers on ebay that
> looks like it *might* fit Campi-style braze-on mounts, and have asked
> the seller about them:
>
> Item # 140359111601
>
> Is there any way to tell which one of the many varieties of Simplex
> LJ shifters these might be and whether they might be compatible with
> "normal"
> (Campi-thread) BO shift lever mounts? Off-list replies are fine...
>
> Thanks, folks,
>
> Jon Spangler
> who has 20 days to:
>
> 1) find a new bike-safe place to rent in Alameda and
> 2) wrap up all the escrow-closing details on our house, now that we
> have an accepted offer
> in Alameda, CA USA
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 9
> Date: Tue, 17 Nov 2009 08:52:08 -0800
> From: Jerome & Elizabeth Moos <jerrymoos@sbcglobal.net>
> Subject: Re: [CR] Bernard Carre frame on French Ebay
> To: <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>, Norris Lockley
> <nlockley73@googlemail.com>
> Message-ID: <745541.45658.qm@web82207.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> Well, I think the B. Carre on the seatstay eyes is pretty conclusive, and
> this is in the Carre style, and we have the authoritative testimony of
> Jaouen and Norris. No doubt a Carre. What I question is whether it is
> actually a Motobecane as marked. Note that nowhere in the auction does
> Jaoun claim that it really is a Motobecane, and in assesing its value the
> Carre origin is much more important than what company's livery it
> originally carried. But the decals are clearly nonoriginal, particualrly
> the MBK decals, which are a couple of decades newer than to frame. MBK is
> the brand Motobecane has been using since emerging from bankruptcy, which
> I believe occrred in the 80's. Evidently the Motobecane name and logo was
> sold off in bankruptcy and is now sadly applied to lower end Chinese made
> TIGed Al bikes sold through bike store chains (and unfortunately the
> Mercier name and logo more recently fell into the same hands.)
>
> Carre built for a number of marques, so Motobecane can't be ruled out, but
> he is probably most associated Sauvage-LeJeune, who Norris points out were
> only just up the road. And assuming the paint might be original, it
> happily matches the signature LeJeune color. Now were this a mid 70's
> frame redecaling it as a LeJeune would seem an attractive solution, as
> many LeJeunes in the 70's (including mine) carried simple white block
> letters with the LeJeune name. But as it is 50's, a problem arises in
> regard to the Sauvage bit of the Sauvage-LeJeuene livery. The decals will
> probably be hard to obtain and likely have not been widely reproduced, in
> part because the decals and even the name have today become highly
> politically incorrect.
>
> Regards,
>
> Jerry Moos
> Big Spring, Texas, USA
>
> --- On Tue, 11/17/09, Norris Lockley <nlockley73@googlemail.com> wrote:
>
>> From: Norris Lockley <nlockley73@googlemail.com>
>> Subject: [CR] Bernard Carre frame on French Ebay
>> To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
>> Date: Tuesday, November 17, 2009, 4:10 AM
>> Hello Greg,
>>
>> You will be able to sleep easily tonight in the knowledge
>> that your money
>> will have been very well spent on the Bernard Carre frame
>> you just bought
>> off Sceno in Paris.
>>
>> As the seller Sceno - Jaouen? has just told us in his
>> email the frame is an
>> authemtic Carre...and has the curved plate top-eyes stamped
>> B Carre to prove
>> it
>>
>> The frame is rare as it is an early Carre, probably dating
>> from the mid 50s
>> to early 60s, at a time when he used round fork
>> blades? in that unusual
>> two-plate fork crown, and those odd Huret drop-outs. .
>> Typical also of Carre
>> is the fact that the seat lug, probably a Nervex or Oscar
>> Egg does not match
>> with the Prugnat head lugs. The other unusual feature is
>> the style in which
>> Carre has finished off the ends of the fork blades and the
>> seat and
>> chainstays. Normally he scollops them out with a round
>> file, but the case of
>> this frame he has left the ends domed on the outside and
>> cut square on the
>> inside.
>>
>> As you state in your email to the List, Carre worked very
>> extensively as a
>> sub-contractor and supplier to the trade and quite a lot of
>> trade/Pro teams.
>> What you need to do now is to discover which trade teams of
>> the period in
>> question rode Huret gears - certainly Stella did. The other
>> possibility is
>> that the Huret ends were the only ones on Carre's bench top
>> at the time, as
>> he seeems to have a reputation for using whatever was
>> readily available to
>> hand. Some of my Carre frames have odd mixes of fork ends
>> and lugs. Carre
>> was very fond of Pillar Box red paint.. so this frame could
>> well be wearing
>> its original paintwork...or it could have been a frame
>> built for the Sauvage
>> -Lejeune team, whose headquarters were about 10 kms up the
>> road from
>> Jaouen's home. Had the frame been built for a specific team
>> member the
>> rider's initials would have been stamped on the top-eyes.
>>
>> I had got my eye on the frame and there wasn't a bid on it
>> when I went to
>> bed in the early hours of this morning and had hoped it
>> would remain unsold
>> until I got up. If all goes well in the next two days I
>> shall be going back
>> to France and intend calling on Jaouen , en route, to see
>> what gems he has
>> lurking about in his cellar. I had hoped to take the Carre
>> off his hands..
>>
>> Of course you could change your mind about the frame if you
>> remain
>> unconvinced about it. The chainset's extraction threads are
>> in a bad way so
>> you might have real difficulties removing the cranks
>> without damaging the
>> frame. As Jaouen states in his email to the List...he is
>> willing to cancel
>> the auction...
>>
>> Come on Greg..if you feel like a damsel in distress about
>> this frame.. then
>> I will be your knight in shining armour..and get you out of
>> the mess.
>>
>> I have onlly seen one other Carre like this one and the
>> last time I saw it,
>> it was hanging on a peg in a workshop about 30 minutes away
>> from Jaouen's
>> house..so it looks as though I shall have to make a
>> deviation to see whether
>> it is still? available.
>>
>> Come on Greg, you know that you already have too many
>> frames in your stable
>> !!
>>
>>
>> Norris Lockley
>>
>> Settle UK
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 10
> Date: Tue, 17 Nov 2009 10:51:24 -0600
> From: "Strickler, George M" <gstrickler@tulane.edu>
> Subject: [CR] Query on Campagnolo Down Tube Shifters
> To: <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>
> Message-ID:
> <63905F71CF9A794F80217187D219FA4B01B01124@EX07.ad.tulane.edu>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> At some point in the 80's Campagnolo apparently changed the design of
> the dt shifters from the pebbly-looking levers that had been around for
> years to a more modern looking, smooth lever embossed with the flying
> shield. When did this change take place? Thereafter did the company
> ever return to the older design before stopping the manufacture of dt
> shifters?
>
> George Strickler
>
> New Orleans
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 11
> Date: Tue, 17 Nov 2009 12:08:49 -0500
> From: George Allen <jgallen@lexairinc.com>
> Subject: Re: [CR] any idea why this 1970s Motobecane went for over
> $1500??
> To: CLASSIC RENDEZVOUS <Classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>
> Message-ID: <4B02D8A1.7050008@lexairinc.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"; format=flowed
>
> Joel,
>
> You tell me. A frameset sold in August for $1425! Just a frameset! All I
> can guess is nostalgia, although I liked the French components and the
> red and black paint scheme.
>
> George Allen
> Lexington, Ky
> USA
>
>
>
>
> Via Bicycle wrote:
>
>>ebay auction-
>>http://ebay.com/<blah>
>>or item #180430263984
>>
>>just a stock 1970s Moto. nothing special. it is clean, and has been
>>cleaned. but there is nothing special about it? we have 2 here at the
>>shop right now.
>>I was shocked when I saw it on Ebay at $900, but even more atontished at
>>$1500+.
>>
>>Funny seeing "more desirable" bikes sell for a lot less. I am kind of
>>weary to put a couplejack taylors on Ebay now, seeing that there is
>>more demand for bike boom era mass produced bikes, then custom or
>>semicustom bikes. Let me comb the rafters for Gitanes and the like.
>>
>>joel flood
>>philadelphia, PA
>>_______________________________________________
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
> --
> This message has been scanned for viruses and
> dangerous content by MailScanner, and is
> believed to be clean.
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 12
> Date: Tue, 17 Nov 2009 09:17:43 -0800
> From: Jerome & Elizabeth Moos <jerrymoos@sbcglobal.net>
> Subject: Re: [CR] Baines Flying Gate
> To: <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>, Norris Lockley
> <nlockley73@googlemail.com>
> Message-ID: <871755.58303.qm@web82204.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> Norris, if the decals on my apparently refinished frame are accurate, it
> was the Whirlwind and International TT that were one and the same. My
> frame carries a Whirlwind decal on the seattube and International TT
> decals on the downtube.
>
> Regards,
>
> Jerry Moos
> Big Spring, Texas, USA
>
>
> --- On Tue, 11/17/09, Norris Lockley <nlockley73@googlemail.com> wrote:
>
>> From: Norris Lockley <nlockley73@googlemail.com>
>> Subject: [CR] Baines Flying Gate
>> To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
>> Date: Tuesday, November 17, 2009, 4:35 AM
>> There were several models of the
>> Flying gate design, including the
>> International TT, the VS37, and the Whirlwind, although I
>> think that the
>> latter two? might have been one and the same.
>>
>> The International TT was in fact not a time-trial model,
>> but a massed -start
>> one, its wheelbase was fairly short for the era, at only
>> 39.5 inches.The VS
>> 37 was the shorter model and boasted a wheelbase of 37.75
>> inches...htese
>> dimensions being obtained on frames that had an 11 inch
>> bottom bracket
>> height using 26 inch wheels. The TT model could be built to
>> specification
>> too, permitting longer rear triangles and wheelbases.
>> Angles were 74 head
>> and 72 seat.
>>
>> I have both owned several of these frames and also built my
>> own BESPOKE
>> versions of them. Although the design might appear quirky,
>> it does work, and
>> can give a very stable and exhilerating ride. The vertical
>> main strut allows
>> the builder tremendous freedom to vary the seat tube angle
>> and the length of
>> the top tube. It also permits a very short rear triangle
>> even with
>> mudguards.
>>
>> A fault on the design was the failure to braze a plate or
>> bi-laminated joint
>> at the point where the vertical meets the top-tube. On some
>> older frames
>> there is sometimes a noticeable bend at that point where
>> the top-tube has
>> bent down towards the seat cluster. More substantial
>> secondary seat-stays
>> would have prevented this slight fault. The other common
>> fault with certain
>> Baines gates is rust behind the seat tube and in between
>> the chainstays.? I
>> found this on a number of frames, but friends had advised
>> me that they had
>> also experienced this problem.
>>
>> Norris Lockley
>>
>> Settle UK
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
>
>
> End of Classicrendezvous Digest, Vol 83, Issue 80
> *************************************************