Re: [CR] Racist (not Racing) Bikes

(Example: Bike Shops)

Date: Fri, 20 Nov 2009 09:18:16 -0500
From: "George Allen" <jgallen@lexairinc.com>
To: <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>
References: <119715.74281.qm@web38104.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
In-Reply-To: <119715.74281.qm@web38104.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [CR] Racist (not Racing) Bikes


Me too, Dale. What's the big deal?. There is a huge market for African-Americana: cookie jars, art, books, etc. As a matter of fact, I have a antique, caricatured African woman cookie jar on my kitchen counter right now. I paid big bucks for it at auction. Some of this stuff is incredibly offensive but oddly enough, some of the biggest collectors are African-American themselves. It's a bike with a silly decal. Selling, owning or riding it doesn't make anyone a racist anymore than eating a cookie out of my cookie jar makes me one. You guys up north or out west might not see this stuff. In the south, we see it all the time.

George Allen Lexington, Ky USA

Dale B. Phelps wrote:
>JB,
>
>Don't let that chatter trouble you in the least. If this were my size, I'd buy the frame post-haste. It is from a significant point in cycling history, back when french riders and teams actually rode in and won events on french-built bikes. The (off-topic) social values of today have no bearing upon a bike frame built more than 40 years ago, and IMO should have never been broached in this forum.
>
>
>
>Dale Phelps
>Montagna lunga Colorado USA
>
>--- On Thu, 11/19/09, billydavid13@comcast.net <billydavid13@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>
>From: billydavid13@comcast.net <billydavid13@comcast.net>
>Subject: Re: [CR] Racist (not Racing) Bikes
>To: "jaouen BAZIN" <jaouenbazin@free.fr>
>Cc: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
>Date: Thursday, November 19, 2009, 6:26 PM
>
>
>Bon Soir Jaouen Bazin. I don't think you should end the auction. You are offering a bike which you did not design the decals for - that is a matter of history. I can understand that some people might find the emblem insensitive or worse. But it is hard to believe that anyone can seriously hold that this decal materially oppresses people of African [recent] extraction. There is horrible racism of all sorts in the world. In your country [France] as in mine [USA] i would argue, were this an appropriate forum, there is much specifically anti black prejudice. It is not my place to argue the intent of the decal 50 yrs ago. Racist? Patronizing? Paternalistic? Insensitive? If one feels embarassed or opposed to the symbol one should not bid on the bike. If one acquires the bike they should be prepared to explain and/ or justify its origin. Actual racism is rarely so blatant. Good luck w/ your auction. Billy Ketchum; Chicago, IL; E.E.U.U. [i think].
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "jaouen BAZIN" <jaouenbazin@free.fr>
>To: "Jon Crate" <Jon.Crate@FAI.US>, classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
>Sent: Thursday, November 19, 2009 7:23:30 PM GMT -06:00 US/Canada Central
>Subject: Re: [CR] Racist (not Racing) Bikes
>
>
>CR list,
>i'm suprised about this bebate, i sold vintage items, and no in my mind to
>send an other message than
>passion for vintage bicycle. Sauvage Lejeune won tour de France in 1968 with
>Jan Jansen and i don't think it
>was symbolique day for racisme. I can understand, today, this logo can be
>hurt people's, but as i reply at don,
>if Lejeune brother's was racist they don't put French flag underpant at the
>"papoo" it will be indescent for racist.
>and they are not a second message on logo.
>BTW if CR list think is indescent, and is a bad image for our favorite
>sport, to sell this frame i immidiatly close the auction.
>Regards
>jaouen BAZIN
>Wissous, France
>
>
>-----Message d'origine-----
>De : Jon M. Crate [mailto:Jon.Crate@FAI.US]
>Envoye : vendredi 20 novembre 2009 01:33
>A : 'jaouen BAZIN'; classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
>Objet : RE: [CR] Racist (not Racing) Bikes
>
>
>Jaouen,
>I was convinced when I saw it last week that regardless of the history
>behind
>the bike, the fear of a racist appearance would prevent it from selling for
>a
>good price.
>
>Likewise, I anticipated that some racist might snap it up!
>
>If you can't find anyone to buy it, I'll pay a nominal amount for it and
>cover
>the cost shipping it here and I'll strip it, repaint it and ride it!
>
>Jon Crate
>Marietta in the Old South Georgia
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: classicrendezvous-bounces@bikelist.org
>[mailto:classicrendezvous-bounces@bikelist.org] On Behalf Of jaouen BAZIN
>Sent: Thursday, November 19, 2009 6:58 PM
>To: donald gillies; classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
>Subject: Re: [CR] Racist (not Racing) Bikes
>
>Hello Don,
>for the story, Lejeune brother come back to africa (wich year i don't known
>probably 50's) and fall in love about
>africa country. They decide about they're trip to call the race frame
>Sauvage-Lejeune, "sauvage" is french word
>for "wild". This frame date probably 1960, 50years before the "cliche" from
>africa was "papou", i think it's not racist
>but supide "cliche" from 50 years old
>Regards
>Jaouen BAZIN
>Wissous, France
>
>(actualy i'm the seller of the frame and if i think is racist i do not sold
>this bike)
>
>
>
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