Mark-
I am no pantograph expert in any broad sense of the word, but seem to be pretty familiar with pantographing on Bianchi. I have seen so much variability---coming out of Italy mostly---but never considered any of it to be "counterfeiting" in any way. Were these parts Non-Stock or non-standard, never found on the "normal" production bikes? Yes.
I am not talking about amateur garage pantographing here. I am talking about Gimondi using a Bianchi pantographed Cinelli stem when Bianchi ALWAYS spec'd 3TTT stems on their pro bikes. If following the logic you spell out below, then that Cinelli stem would be verboten. I am not sure I can agree with that logic. The presence of "one-off" pantographed parts--again unless obvious amateur quality--does not indicate any lesser value or non-originality. Who are we to say that Gimondi was using "counterfeiting" pantographed parts. I think Gimondi is still alive, you might try and track him down and have this "originality" discussion with him....I dunno?, he might agree with you.
Best Regards-
Nels Cone
Seattle WA
> From: accobra@peoplepc.com
> To: khun.freek@gmail.com; classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
> Date: Fri, 29 May 2009 09:07:03 -0500
> CC: faro@cistron.nl
> Subject: Re: [CR] Ebay outing, MASI chainring, and now panto in general
>
> Freek, I would be suspicious of the originality of the Masi chainring you
> have listed. I saw it when it popped up on eBay a couple days ago, though I
> didn't realize a CR list member owned it. It doesn't have the
> characteristics of a typical original Masi chainring from that era, or any
> from era that I'm familiar with. The simplistic engraving reminds me of the
> non-original Colnago pantographed parts (and other marques) that have
> flooded eBay. They appear to be originating from Italy and other places in
> Europe.
>
> Sorry to rain on your parade, but those are my thoughts.
>
> Speaking in general now, this has been a hot topic in the past. Personally
> I only want to install panto parts that I know to be original & of the same
> style I've seen & used over the past 35 years on my own Masi's & Colnagos.
> Originality counts when a person is dealing with collectibles, whether it's
> bikes or anything else. It scary to think that some of the stuff on eBay is
> being purchased as original by unknowing folks. If the people creating
> these artistic interpretations would simply do cut-outs & drillium then
> that'd be great. I have some drillium on my own bikes. But it's when they
> put a manufacturer's name on it, call it original (and naturally extract a
> premium price for it) that really bugs me. It's called counterfeiting and
> the integrity our hobby is hurt by it, both now and in the future.
>
> Mark Winkelman
> Dallas, Texas USA
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Freek Faro" <khun.freek@gmail.com>
> To: "classic" <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>
> Cc: <faro@cistron.nl>
> Sent: Friday, May 29, 2009 6:57 AM
> Subject: [CR] Ebay outing, mine: Masi chainring, 1st gen SR rear mech,'75
> Gazelle and more
>
>
> > Good day all,
> >
> > I'm active on Ebay again, auctions will end next Sunday. 6 items are
> > on-topic.
> >
> >
> > - 1975 Gazelle AA-frame, vanilla gold metallic, 58 c-t; quite nice, a
> > lot
> > of parts are included
> > - mid 70s Masi pantographed chainring (53 teeth); milled, cut and
> > pantographed ... and as an expert told me, quite rare in this particular
> > form
> > - milled clamp-on Campagnolo gearlevers; added a Campagnolo clamp-on bb
> > cable guide, for good measure
> > - mid 70s Cinelli 64 handlebar and old logo stem; nice condition
> > - mid 70s Cinelli 65 handlebar and old logo stem; double knight crests,
> > choice of stem lengths
> >
> > This is the link:
> >
> > http://ebay.com/
> >
> > Item number for the Gazelle frame is 220422485167, my sellers name is
> > faustobeer.
> >
> > The better pcitures are here:
> >
> > http://www.wooljersey.com/
> >
> > Questions are always welcome, thanks for looking and enjoy bidding!
> >
> > Freek Faro
> > Rotterdam Netherlands
> > _______________________________________________
> >
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