[CR] PLEAE READ! Was " on-topic site" now brouhaha

(Example: Production Builders)

References: <08824CB1AE21413A94D7C05EC9A51F6F@office1>
To: <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 2010 10:26:35 -0500
In-Reply-To: <08824CB1AE21413A94D7C05EC9A51F6F@office1>
From: <oroboyz@aol.com>
Subject: [CR] PLEAE READ! Was " on-topic site" now brouhaha


Dear CR folks:

Once again we have a situation where some folks have become upset because of snippy emails. It's true that Robert Shackelford has some difficulty supplying advice or comments without coming across as condescending. I am not convinced he means it that way entirely, but the effext is evident in these last complaints...I am hereby asking him, and all the rest of us for that matter, to stop and review your outgoing mail before sending, looking for that tone of impatience that can so easily damage the communication. A message which is designed to help (in this case describe the means for searching archives) doesn't have a positive effect if the recipient is wounded in the process. All of our skins are surprisingly thin when it comes to this email medium...

I personally go through this struggle when new (and occasionally existing) members do not follow the most basic rules of this list and I must write to them asking for their compliance. I admit occasionally I have been a bit snippy. "Didn't you see the multiple places I asked you to read the rules before participating?" "Didn't I explain why it's desirable, good manners and required to completely sign off your messages?" So I struggle mightily to be light and cheery, even when I think this person has been inconsiderate and caused me extra work. In reality, they are just being impetuous and unconscious of their actions.

On the other hand, we also all need to be less fragile in our reactions to peoples email! If you think someone is a bit of a bore, move on. Don't take things personally but glean whatever you can from the message and forget the rest. Life's too short to be tortured by a nuance of phrase, especially when that person may not have even meant the slight you perceived!

Finally, this is a rare exception to my general practice to deal OFF LIST with list disagreements, misbehavior, ruffled feathers. I ask you to do the same, i.e., keep it private. Once the whole 1700 + membership has their nose rubbed in these things, it's hard to settle them quietly. Let's be more discreet, more considerate of the group and work on problems quietly... off list.

Thanks Dale

Dale Brown Greensboro, North Carolina USA http://www.classicrendezvous.com

-----Original Message----- From: Leonard Diamond <leonarddiamond@verizon.net> To: mrrabbit@mrrabbit.net Cc: oroboyz@aol.com Sent: Fri, Jan 8, 2010 8:05 am Subject: RE: [CR] on-topic site

OK here it goes offline,

Your posts are often rude and condescending (perhaps even curmudgeonly). It

is Dale's list with his rules. When someone posts a message that does not

follow the rules it is up to him to reeducate that person which he does

typically by either booting them off the list or via offline messages.

Nowhere in the rules does it say that anyone other than Dale should take it

upon themselves to act as the assistant listowner.

Your messages seem to be annoying many of us. When you get messages from

folks that are strictly lurkers otherwise that should be a pretty good hint.

Why not restrict your posts to adding to our knowledge of classic bicycles

and leave the other stuff to Dale?

Respectfully,

Leonard Diamond

Ridgewood, New Jersey

-----Original Message-----

From: classicrendezvous-bounces@bikelist.org

[mailto:classicrendezvous-bounces@bikelist.org] On Behalf Of

mrrabbit@mrrabbit.net

Sent: Thursday, January 07, 2010 10:43 PM

To: Harry McMillan

Cc: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org

Subject: Re: [CR] on-topic site

Um folks...this topic was effectively dead as of this AM with residual

discussion taking place between myself and 2 others offlist...per CR rules

If you desire to re-fuel a flame war...run it by Dale?

=8-)

Robert Shackelford

San Jose, CA USA

Quoting Harry McMillan <harrymcmillan@mac.com>:


> Indeed, shame a simple request for information can generate such a
> rude and sarcastic response from Mr Shackleton. It is not Mr Roohr
> who should feel embarrassed. If you are unable to respond in a
> generous, civil and non-judgemental manner then better to keep quiet
> and leave it to some one who is.
>
> Regards
>
> Harry McMillan
> Argyll, Scotland
>
>
> On 8 Jan 2010, at 00:31, Richard Pakula wrote:
>
> > Why is Mr. Shackleford so negatively extreme in his initial response?
> >
> > Does he think he is perfect? Maybe he should move to Mars.
> >
> > He owes an apology to Mr. Roohr and the rest of the CR list members.
> >
> > If he cannot be civil and helpful, and keep his unwarranted sarcastic
> > remarks to himself, he should keep his email mouth shut!
> >
> > Richard Pakula
> > Toronto, Canada
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: paccoastcycles [mailto:paccoastcycles@sbcglobal.net]
> > Sent: January 7, 2010 12:34 AM
> > To: mrrabbit@mrrabbit.net; damien roohr
> > Cc: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
> > Subject: Re: [CR] on-topic site
> >
> > I address Robert Shackleford with regard to his comments on not
> > being aware
> > of something on line that evidently seems obvious to him. Sir, I'm
> > sure that
> > there are many levels of competence regarding the internet here in
> > this
> > group. We beginners will appreiate your kind forbearance and help.
> > We are
> > not dumb, just not as advanced as some others. Thank you.
> >
> > Chuck Hoefer
> > Vista, California USA
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: <mrrabbit@mrrabbit.net>
> > To: "damien roohr" <droohr@comcast.net>
> > Cc: <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>
> > Sent: Wednesday, January 06, 2010 8:45 PM
> > Subject: Re: [CR] on-topic site
> >
> >
> >> How is it that you are aware of bikelist.org, it's various lists
> >> directory
> >
> >> by
> >> name including this one, and not be aware of the search function
> >> for the
> >> very
> >> same two locations?
> >>
> >> It's kinda like being aware of the CR list, but not being aware of
> >> http://www.classicrendezvous.com.
> >>
> >> =8-)
> >>
> >> Robert Shackelford
> >> San Jose, CA USA
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Quoting damien roohr <droohr@comcast.net>:
> >>
> >>> I have no vested interest in this site - just stumbled upon it...
> >>> do not
> >>> know
> >>> whether it has been presented or discussed here before, as I
> >>> can't seem
> >>> to
> >>> access a tool to enable a search of previous bikelist topics - if
> >>> anyone
> >>> could direct me to the classic rendezvous search capabilities,
> >>> I'd very
> >>> much
> >>> appreciate it!
> >>>
> >>> http://www.VeloBase.com
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Damien Roohr
> >>> Canton, CT
> >>> 1978 Comp GS restoration under way
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> Classicrendezvous mailing list
> >>> Classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
> >>> http://www.bikelist.org/mailman/listinfo/classicrendezvous
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> --
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> >>> saved in a permanent database.
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
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> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Classicrendezvous mailing list
> >> Classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
> >> http://www.bikelist.org/mailman/listinfo/classicrendezvous
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
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> > Classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
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>
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