Re: [CR] Do the English love Raleighs?

(Example: Humor:John Pergolizzi)

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To: George Allen <jgallen@lexairinc.com>, <classicrendezvous-bounces@bikelist.org>, <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>
From: <bruno.p@me.com>
Date: Wed, 20 Jan 2010 21:31:32 +0000
Subject: Re: [CR] Do the English love Raleighs?


I would go along with your thoughts on the Raleighs. They are not as well thought of here, as over on your side of the pond. Although I'm very fond of my Raleigh Racer 501 frame (circa early 80s). Cycling in England and France on it (loaded with all my camping gear) lovely ride.

Bruno Pearson London England

Sent from my BlackBerry® wireless device

-----Original Message----- From: George Allen <jgallen@lexairinc.com> Date: Wed, 20 Jan 2010 16:13:15 To: <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org> Subject: Re: [CR] Do the English love Raleighs?

Jerry,

I've no quibble with your comments save one. You can hardly give away an old Raleigh in England. I've heard on more than one occasion that they're considered junk over there with the possible exception of the Team bikes. They had so many other local quality builders that put mass-produced Raleighs to shame. Many of the Raleigh models we saw in the States seem to never have been sold in their country of origin. I'd say Carltons are more highly regarded over there as are all the London builders. Maybe our English friends can chime in on this but I've heard most club racers wouldn't be seen dead on a Raleigh.

George Allen Lexington, Ky USA

On 1/20/2010 11:16 AM, Jerome & Elizabeth Moos wrote:
> Well, the fillet brazed Schwinns were not light for bikes made from CroMoly. But they were well made in terms of durability, proper alignment, etc. And the fact remains that they have seen an increase in popularity in the last few years, and have commanded pretty good prices on eBay, as has been remarked on here. If I recall correctly, Sports Tourers and the mid-70's version of the fillet brazed Superior, which was essentially the Sports Tourer remamed, have often approached $500 in the last couple of years. And I believe several Super Sports have gone for over $300. Not exactly Masi money, but that would make a clean original Super Sport a bargain at $150 if one could find one for that. And I don't think I've even seen the original (or at least earlier) Superior, discontinued in 1963, for sale in the last couple of years. These have become pretty rare and would probably command easily more than $500, comparable to a 70's Paramount. I know I
> wouldn't let my all-chrome 1962 Superior go for $500, probably not even for $1000.
>
> It may be that the higher prices for fillet brazed Schwinns lately has benefitted from combined interest from both the lightweight collectors and from Schwinn collectors who usually are more inclined toward baloon tire models. The pre-1963 Superior and the Super Sport, with Ashtabula cranks, are an unusual blend of traditional Schwinn construction and cranks with other components from Europe. I will concede that the interest in fillet brazed Schwinns is probably mostly a US thing, just as classic CCMs have a following in Canada and Raleigh, though collected worldwide, probably has its strongest following in UK.
>
> I have one each of pre-1963 Superior, Sports Tourer and Super Sport. The Super Sport was acquired a little more than a year ago, and needs to be cleaned up and sorted out to get it back on the road. This thread may inspire me to do so.
>
> Regards,
>
> Jerry Moos
> Big Spring, TX, USA
>
>
> --- On Tue, 1/19/10, joeb-z@comcast.net<joeb-z@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>
>> From: joeb-z@comcast.net<joeb-z@comcast.net>
>> Subject: Re: [CR] Buying on the cheap
>> To: "Jerome& Elizabeth Moos"<jerrymoos@sbcglobal.net>
>> Cc: "Classic Rendezvous"<classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>, "David Kulcinski"<dkulcinski@yahoo.com>
>> Date: Tuesday, January 19, 2010, 10:37 PM
>> #yiv1189482664 p
>> {margin:0;}I am
>> going to disagree. With the three pound Ashtabula crankset
>> and plus 30 pound weight Super Sports are just not winners.
>> Who really wants to ride one? Sport Tourers can be had for
>> this price. I put a lot of both these bikes together. Pull
>> out the kickstand on Sports Tourer and you have a
>> dreadnaught.
>>
>> Joe Bender-Zanoni
>> Whitneyville, CT
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Jerome& Elizabeth Moos"
>> <jerrymoos@sbcglobal.net>
>> To: "Classic Rendezvous"
>> <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>, "David
>> Kulcinski"<dkulcinski@yahoo.com>
>> Sent: Tuesday, January 19, 2010 3:48:53 PM GMT -05:00
>> US/Canada Eastern
>> Subject: Re: [CR] Buying on the cheap
>>
>> If it is the original Super Sport, i.e. fillet brazed
>> CroMoly, produced up until the mid/late 70's, those have
>> seen some renewed interest the last crouple of yeras, so I
>> would say $150 for a clean mostly original example would be
>> a bargain.
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Jerry Moos
>> Big Spring, Texas, USA
>>
>> --- On Tue, 1/19/10, David Kulcinski
>> <dkulcinski@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>> From: David Kulcinski<dkulcinski@yahoo.com>
>>> Subject: Re: [CR] Buying on the cheap
>>> To: "Classic Rendezvous"
>>>
>> <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>
>>
>>> Date: Tuesday, January 19, 2010, 1:38 PM
>>> Is it allowed (bad form) to inquire
>>> of the list about pricing for ON-TOPIC objects; i.e.
>>>
>> is $150
>>
>>> a reasonable price for a Schwinn, Super Sport that
>>>
>> looks
>>
>>> really clean?
>>>
>>> Thank you,
>>>
>>>
>>> David Kulcinski
>>> Orange, CA
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ________________________________
>>> From: Stephen James<sj52@hotmail.com>
>>> To: tom@orderandchaos.com;
>>> Classic Rendezvous
>>>
>> <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>
>>
>>> Sent: Mon, January 18, 2010 2:56:49 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [CR] Buying on the cheap
>>>
>>>
>>> Hi All,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I bought a 1960s Frejus for $500 about 2 years ago,
>>>
>> just
>>
>>> before I joined the CR list. The seller was
>>>
>> moving,
>>
>>> had another Frejus (that was too small for me to ride,
>>>
>> but
>>
>>> offered at $2500), and he even offered me some built
>>>
>> Dura
>>
>>> Ace wheels --since the Frejus had Campies. I
>>>
>> turned
>>
>>> down the extras, since I felt I was getting a
>>>
>> deal. It
>>
>>> was a deal for me because I wanted to recapture a
>>>
>> Frejus
>>
>>> from my youth. The price was secondary. I
>>>
>> would
>>
>>> have paid more. Anyway, I did research on the
>>>
>> bike and
>>
>>> sent it to the seller, as well.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Anyway, after I joined this list, I got a better idea
>>>
>> of
>>
>>> how prized these bikes were and the prices people
>>>
>> were
>>
>>> willing to spend. I don't feel guilty about
>>>
>> my
>>
>>> pruchase, at any rate. However, a few weeks ago,
>>>
>> I saw
>>
>>> on ebay a Frejus (frame only, in relatively poor
>>>
>> --imo--
>>
>>> condition) that the seller wanted $1700 for. At
>>>
>> the
>>
>>> time, I thought it was a rip off; I almost posted on
>>> it. However, was the seller right? Was he
>>> following the market trend, and assigning his bike
>>>
>> the
>>
>>> market value? Who exactly determines the value
>>>
>> of the
>>
>>> item, except the buyer? I'm not sure if
>>>
>> it's ethical
>>
>>> to tell a seller that he/she should raise his
>>>
>> price.
>>
>>> Imo, third parties have no business in the
>>> transaction. If someone is offering something
>>>
>> for a
>>
>>> low price, simply offer more or what it is thought to
>>>
>> be
>>
>>> worth. There are people who might desire an item
>>>
>> but
>>
>>> really not have the kind of cash to buy it at market
>>> price. That's often why they hit craigslist
>>>
>> and ebay
>>
>>> in the first
>>> place.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Fwiw, I do agree that it would be unscrupulous to
>>>
>> haggle
>>
>>> with a widow who's selling her husband's
>>>
>> Confente for
>>
>>> $25. But, I think that'd be cheating on the
>>>
>> verge of
>>
>>> theft. I couldn't say exactly where the line
>>>
>> is.
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>>
>>> Steve James
>>>
>>> Bronx, NY USA
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> _________________________________________________________________
>>
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