Re: [CR] tubular sizes 26", 27", and 28"

(Example: Production Builders:Cinelli)

References: <mailman.856.1268017273.544.classicrendezvous@bikelist.org> <8CC8CA7601359EA-2D58-2130B@webmail-d038.sysops.aol.com>
Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2010 07:05:23 -0800 (PST)
From: "David Kulcinski" <dkulcinski@yahoo.com>
To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
In-Reply-To: <8CC8CA7601359EA-2D58-2130B@webmail-d038.sysops.aol.com>
Subject: Re: [CR] tubular sizes 26", 27", and 28"


". . . Back in the 1970s, 622 mm clinchers were very rare in the U.S., and most sporty bikes used either 630 mm (27 inch) clinchers, or standard (622 mm) tubulars. . . .

Interesting: When I got my first "good" bike (Windsor Pro), in '72, I got it with tubulars. I don't remember (I don't think that I paid much attention) what size they were. What I do remember was that a couple of the guys that I used to ride with had 700Cs. I think that most of the others rode 'sew-ups' like I did. I didn't realize that the 700Cs were that rare, except when compared to those that rode 'sew-ups'.

Now that I think back, I guess that the only time that I REMEMBER seeing 27" tires were on what I would call lesser quality bikes. Then again, I really was just into riding & didn't really pay that much attention to the technicalities of the bikes.

David Kulcinski Orange, CA

________________________________ From: "rdf1249@aol.com" <rdf1249@aol.com> To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org; crumpy6204@aol.com Sent: Sun, March 7, 2010 11:23:25 PM Subject: Re: [CR] tubular sizes 26", 27", and 28"

Continental USED to call their road tubulars 27" until just recently. Here is an on-line catalog listing that still does, for the Sprinter: http://www.lickbike.com/productpage.aspx?PART_NUM_SUB='1683-05' Now they are officially calling them the equally confusing 28", an archaic designation from when they were much larger cross section and actually measured 28" overall. Look at their site here: http://www.conti-online.com/generator/www/de/en/continental/bicycle/themes/race/tubularroad/sprinter/sprinter_en.html Neither designation says anything about the rim size, which has always corresponded to 700c. (An argument could me made that some cyclocross tubulars are 27" or even 28" to this day, but we are mainly talking about narrow road racing tubulars).

At any rate, the late great Sheldon Brown has already addressed this long ago and thus shall it ever be:

"Standard size tubular tires use a rim that corresponds in diameter to a 622 mm (700C) clincher rim. Back in the 1970s, 622 mm clinchers were very rare in the U.S., and most sporty bikes used either 630 mm (27 inch) clinchers, or standard (622 mm) tubulars. The fact that these sizes are so close led to an in-accurate habit of referring to "27 inch" tubulars. This careless nomenclature still causes confusion, and people often imagine that there is a different "27 inch" size in tubulars as there is in clinchers. This is not true. THERE IS ACTUALLY NO SUCH THING AS A "27 INCH" TUBULAR. All full-size tubulars fit all full-size tubular rims. There are smaller size tubulars, "26 inch", "24 inch" and even smaller, but those are VERY uncommon, mainly used for children's race bikes, which hardly exist at all in the U.S."

Thank you as always, Sheldon, for de-mystifying the universe as it relates to bicycles. (26" though still not common, were heavily promoted by Cino Cinelli, and remain an option today, and not just for childrens bicycles, corresponding to the 650C clincher tire.)

Ken Taylor and I were talking about tubulars today and he happened to mention 26" and 27". Of course he knew that 27" tubulars were really the same as 700c, and in fact he said they started building the bikes for 700c clinchers long before it was fashionable in the UK and the US. He used to go touring on the continent and found they couldn't get any tires for their 27" wheels if they needed them. He told about one chap on a tour in France who went to a shoemaker when his wire bead separated from the casing. The shoemaker sewed a thin leather strip over the wire to the casing so he could continue on. Keep that in mind when you rip a wire bead out of a tire and can't get a spare.

The Brits further complicated the 28" size in clinchers by having two: The ISO 635 size found on some rod brake roadsters like the Raleigh DL-1, commonly called 28 x 1 1/2", and the ISO 622 size (yes, same as 700c) found on other roadsters such as my pre-war BSA, which had tires marked 28 x 1 3/4", though some were also called 28 x 1 5/8 x 1 1/4 (as in the above mentioned 28" tubulars). I ordered some of the 635 for the BSA before I sold it and found they were too large, so tried some 700 x 32 Continental Top Tourings, and voila! They fit. Now I would pick some of the Schwalbe tires in 700 x 50 for a more authentic look.

rom: crumpy6204@aol.com o: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org ent: Sunday, March 7, 2010 6:51:07 PM GMT -06:00 US/Canada Central ubject: [CR] Tubs sizes I raced in the 50s on 27" TUBS, Dunlop made tubs in 26" AND 27" size, I sold to list member a pair of Dunlop #3s NOS that where clearly marked 27" I did try hem on 700c rims and they did fit OK but a little loose, I dont think I would ave wanted to glue them on a700c rim they in my mind would have stretched, NOW ince in the USA I have NEVER seen a 27" Tub Sew up rim! for that matter I have ever seen a 26" also, Would a 26" Dunlop tub fit a 700c rim? ?Alexander onTutscheck "Fancy Lugs" told me at a LeCircque that NO 27" Tub ?SEW UP rims here made? they where all 700C BUT I do remember that I had Brit made tub rims n a 27" size! WHERE ARE THEY NOW! I have never seen a pair on Brit or US Ebay or sale. Only the 700c. ? ? How about an answer to my question WHEN DID BRITS top using 40 32 holes and go to 36 and WHY? It has always seemed to me to have ore spokes in the back wheel than the front,made sense. why did others use 6x36 the cost and the work to lace would have been the same the weight is the same, You big blokes would be safer with more pokes in the back wheel I would think, SO why 36x36? did Great Britain cave in nce again to other country's! ? TRADITION Chaps, Have a PINT or should it be. ave a .473 litres on me at the local. Cheers John Crump OldneedapintnowBrit, arker, Co USA

Time to Re-tire!

Bob Freeman
Elliott Bay Bicycles
2116 Western Ave
Seattle, WA 98121
206-441-8144
http://www.elliottbaybicycles.com
http://www.davidsonbicycles.com