I also kind of like Victory/Triomphe as, like Amir, I see them as the beginning of Campy offering complete gruppos of stuff that worked well at prices more affordable than the top-of-the line racing stuff. And also gruppos that were more suited for touring. Frankly, I think it was the ability of Campy to finally make good quality complete second and third tier gruppos that saved them from extermination at the hands of Shimano in the 80's and 90's. If their lower cost offerings had continued to be like Valentino, I think they would have gone the ways of Simplex.
But there were more limited and erratic indications within the CR timeline that Campy occasionaly "got it" about touring and affordable components. The Rally, which replaced the truly awful Gran Tourismo, was in fact an excellent touring RD. The Nuovo Tipo hubs were a good quality product at a reasonable price, and even found their way onto some French bikes, including the Gitane TdF when parts were short during the Bike Boom. And the Nuovo Gran Sport gruppo, as found on the mid/late 70's Raleigh Competition GS was, aside from the cheap stamped jockey cage on the RD, largely the same design as Nuovo Record, only not as highly finished. Or at least with the 5 arm 144 BCD Gran Sport crank. The three arm alloy Gran Sport crank was more suitable for touring as it had a 116 BCD. And the last On Topic version of the Gran Sport crank, the 5 arm 116 BCD often seen configured as a triple was the link to the Victory and Triomphe gruppos whose chainring were interchangeable and almost identical to the late GS.
So the belated Campy effort to sell credible touring/less expensive components that began with Rally and almost got it right with Nuovo Gran Sport finally matured with Victory and Triomphe. And just in time, as Shimano would soon unleash mutiple gruppos at various price points that all had similar design and function, varying mostly in the finish and the mix of steel/alloy/titanium and later carbon used. If Campy had faced this Shimano challenge with seond line stuff like Valentino and Gran Tourismo, we would now be speaking of Campy only in the past tense.
Regards,
Jerry Moos
Tuscaloosa, AL, USA
From: Amir Avitzur <walawalaoxenfree@gmail.com> Subject: Re: [CR] Classic Compact Cranksets & Tiomphe To: "Thomas Adams" <thomasthomasa@yahoo.com>, classicrendezvous@bikelist.org Date: Sunday, May 2, 2010, 9:34 AM
Off and on, Campy made half hearted efforts at covering the touring market. Their Grand Tourismo rear derailleur, for example, could theoretically handle practically any gear range.
Campy's Rally could handle wide ranges and actually worked. The Super Record could handle 50/36 x 14/26 (that's enough for almost everything but loaded touring).
As the Triomphe/Victory/Gran Sport proved, Campy could make competent touring equipment if they wanted to. Why they didn't is a mystery.
Amir Avitzur R"G, Israel
On Sun, May 2, 2010 at 5:00 PM, Thomas Adams <thomasthomasa@yahoo.com>wrote:
> Don't forget the patriarch of the 110 mm bolt circle, the Sugino Mighty
> Tour, taking rings down to 34 teeth and fitting on a Campy BB. And of
> course you can run compact style rings on the TA Cyclotouriste and the
> Stronglight 99 if you want to pass up the triple option. But all compact
> doubles required a competent long cage rear derailleur able to wrap lots of
> chain, like the Suntour VXGT or Shimano Crane GS. So I don't think this was
> a viable option until, what, 1973?
>
> Tom Adams
> Manhattan, KS
>
> --- On *Sun, 5/2/10, Amir Avitzur <walawalaoxenfree@gmail.com>* wrote:
>
>
> From: Amir Avitzur <walawalaoxenfree@gmail.com>
> Subject: [CR] Classic Compact Cranksets & Tiomphe
> To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
> Date: Sunday, May 2, 2010, 6:51 AM
>
> Old steel 3 arm cranks, the type that was popular from the 30's through
> the
> 70's, had a 116 BCD pattern.
> That enabled 36 tooth inner chainrings and "compact" cranksets.
>
> Zeus used a 5-arm 116 BCD pattern on their Criterium cranks from the 60's
> through the 80's.
> So Zeus cranks could be used on touring bikes as well as racing bikes,
> without modification.
>
> When Campy came out with their 116 BCD 3-arm Gran Sport cranks, in both
> aluminum and steel,
> they didn't bother making small chainrings.
>
> I never understood why Campy didn't go after the non-racing markets
> until their Gran Sport/Triomphe/Victory Groups.
>
> Amir Avitzur
> Ramat-Gan, Israel