Andrew,
I understand your point, but Paul clearly stated be wanted the dent repaired and from my understanding, areas that show chips, just retouched. What Paul was given were estimates for a dent repair and cheap powdercoat, when Paul clearly asked for retouch only as he wanted to keep the original finish as much as possible.
What I missed earlier was that Paul did get back to Cycleart looking for a quote on a complete Cycletique which I assume is a complete renovation which Paul clearly acknowledges would be expensive. After all of that Cycleart offered to send back the frame, even though Paul was willing to have the complete refinish, or cycletique done.
To me it still is clearly a case of poor communication or customer service by Cycleart. I realize that shipping cost is at the customers expense. Clearly Paul asked for specific repair and didn't get what he asked for in any way. This is not a way to treat customers.
I worked with Joe Bell on a complete restoration of a 1946 Hetchin's Super Special. Through miscommunication, probably on my part Joe didn't put a slight gloss finish on the frame. He clear coated it, but in a flat finish, but the actual paint work, etc was flawless. I contacted Joe and we talked a bit, and he quickly offered to take care of it by clear coating the frame in the semi-gloss I wanted, and if I recall Joe was offering to cover shipping costs. For that reason, if I needed someone to restore a hetchins I purchased in the States, Mr.Bell would be my first choice.
Peter Naiman
Glendale, WI USA
From: Andrew R Stewart <onetenth@earthlink.net> Subject: Re: [CR] Disappointing Cyclart experience To: "Peter Naiman" <hetchinspete1@yahoo.com>, paul.ozzello@b2b2c.ca, classicrendezvous@bikelist.org Date: Tuesday, May 18, 2010, 8:46 PM
Peter- The problem with the phone is you can't see the bike. Yes a photo can be taken but one really has to handle the thing to access it. The "ship to" is usually the buyers cost.
Andrew,
I'm not sure why you take issue with Paul. I'm not trying to start an argument on the list, but I do disagree with your opinion. Paul according to what I've read gave Jim Cunningham very specific information as to what he wanted done with the frame, and why. Then after conversations, Paul went through the trouble and cost of shipping the frame from Montreal to California, which can't be inexpensive. From there he recieved estimates for work that was not what he specifically asked for.
Once Paul gave his info to Jim, to here "going on about how his painters/artists wouldn't find much motivation from such a job, that there was little satisfaction or gratification to be had from such a project" is not what I'd want to hear from a professional, and frankly I'd probably be insulted. I don't always adhere to the old proverb "the customer is always right", but in this instant I believe Paul has been wronged, and treated very poorly by Cycleart.
With regard to Sue's letter to Paul there might be some miscommunications at Cyclart, so on that one I'll give them the benefit of the doubt. so to finish up my long diatribe, I believe Paul was wronged for cost of shipping and the way he was treated. A proposal does not equal a contract, but Paul wasn't given what he asked for.
Best regards,
Peter Naiman
Glendale, WI USA
From: Andrew R Stewart <onetenth@earthlink.net> Subject: Re: [CR] Disappointing Cyclart experience To: paul.ozzello@b2b2c.ca, classicrendezvous@bikelist.org Date: Tuesday, May 18, 2010, 7:28 PM
Paul- There is much about your post that I take issue with. But what most gets to me most is that you have not been wronged yet you accuse. Tending a proposal is not a contract to do the job to the buyer's specs.
----- Original Message ----- From: <paul.ozzello@b2b2c.ca> To: <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org> Sent: Tuesday, May 18, 2010 1:15 PM Subject: [CR] Disappointing Cyclart experience
>
> I sent my 1985 Bianchi Veloce to Cyclart for repair. It's a middle of the road
> model that doesn't have much monetary value, but it was my first real bike and
> I won a number of races with it when I was a kid; so it has a great deal of
> sentimental value. The top tube has a minor dent from a collision I had with a
> car 25 years ago that I've wanted to have repaired ever since. A number of
> people recommended Cyclart so I emailed Jim Cunningham.
>
> I told him what I wanted done, remove the dent, keep the existing paint, and
> touch up some of the larger eyesores. He said that was a pretty basic repair
> and suggested I send it to him for an estimate. When I eventually got the
> estimate, it was for a dent repair and a cheap powder coat. I called Jim and
> explained to him how keeping the original paint was very important to me, that
> I didn't mind if it didn't come out perfect.
>
> You could tell from the conversation he didn't want to be bothered, ld him how much the bike meant to me, he appeared to
> understand and accepted to give me a quote for the work requested. Several few
> weeks later, Jim obviously changed his mind; I got a mail from Susan with the
> original estimate (dent removal plus re-finish).
>
> I contacted Cyclart once again asking for a quote for a complete CycleTique
> treatment for the frame realizing it would be costly. Apparently, Cyclart has
> no interest in doing the work and offered to send me back the frame as is.
>
> Were my expectations too high? I was willing to spend considerably more than
> what the bike was worth for a simple frame repair and explained it to them long
> before I ever sent them the frame. I wrongly assumed Cyclart would understand
> the passion emotion and history that an owner can have with a particular bike;
> what a disappointment.
>
> Could someone recommend a shop that would do such a repair?
>
>
> Paul Ozzello
>
> Montreal Canada
>
>
> _______________________________________________
Andrew R Stewart Rochester, NY _______________________________________________
Andrew R Stewart
Rochester, NY