John, No forks or any other things like headset cups or bottom bracket cups were attached.
Let me clarify - those weights were differences, not weights. Their actual weights are: 58 ctc 60 ctt 58 tt PX-10 2212.5g = 4.88 lbs 58 ctc 60 ctt 58 tt Masi 3V 1971.8g = 4.35 lbs
Also 56 ctc 58 ctt 57 tt PX-10 1969 USA 2090.8g = 4.61 56 ctc 58 ctt 57 tt PX-10 1972 France 2140.2g = 4.72 lbs 56 ctc 58 ctt 57.8 tt 1980's Bianchi Veloce 2055.7g = 4.53 lbs 58 ctc 60 ctt 59 tt 70's Gitane Grand Sport De Luxe 2616.1g = 5.77 lbs
Good quality forks (read Reynolds, Columbus) about 750g, cheaper forks about 850g
More to weigh in: 63 Paramount 60s Olmo 71 Moto GJ 78 Huffy (The Hefty) Sante Fe
Jon M. a steel weight weeny Crate Marietta, Georgia USA
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From: John D Proch [mailto:johnprochss@yahoo.com] Sent: Thursday, June 10, 2010 1:12 PM To: Jon Crate Subject: Re: [CR] 60's Raleigh Carlton Chrome Frame?
Hi Jon, The Masi 3V and PX-10 are that light in 23"? Wow, I did not realize that. Regards, John Proch La Grange, Texas
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From: Jon M. Crate <Jon@FAI.US> To: donald gillies <gillies@ece.ubc.ca>; classicrendezvous@bikelist.org Sent: Thu, June 10, 2010 10:29:13 AM Subject: Re: [CR] 60's Raleigh Carlton Chrome Frame?
Don, That is consistent with what I have also: My full chrome 23" Carlton (frame only) weighs in at 2705.6 g (5.96 lbs) which is 493.1 g (1.09 lb) heavier than the same size PX-10 and 733.8 g (1.62 lb) more than the same size Masi 3V.
To be fair, only the PX-10 was wearing paint or decals.
Can anyone tell me what tubing the Carlton is likely to have been made of?
Thanks,
Jon M. Crate FAI Materials Testing Laboratory Marietta, Georgia USA
-----Original Message----- From: classicrendezvous-bounces@bikelist.org [mailto:classicrendezvous-bounces@bikelist.org] On Behalf Of donald gillies Sent: Wednesday, June 09, 2010 10:28 PM To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org Subject: Re: [CR] 60's Raleigh Carlton Chrome Frame?
I have several ebay and/or craigslist picture-sets of the early 1960's Raleigh Gran Sport, with "High-Tensile" steel tubing and indeed, it has wrapover stays.
I should say, however, that this may not be an especially lightweight frame. Although I've never owned one, the wrapover bikes used a standard one-piece casting for the wrapover part, because weight didn't matter and it was faster that way. Such Frame/Fork combinations generally weighed about 8 lbs (vs. 6.25 lbs for a reynolds 531 frameset.)
So if this bike has an 8-lbs frame, it would be more or less equivalent to a 1970's Raleigh Grand Prix. The all-chrome carlton cobra was similar.
- Don Gillies
San Diego, CA, USA