Re: [CR] [edited] New member trying to identify a french heart lugged frame

(Example: History:Ted Ernst)

Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2010 10:55:01 -0700
From: "verktyg" <verktyg@aol.com>
To: Thibault Ferron <classicrendezvous@gmail.com>, Classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
References: <AANLkTiljrfI3ayW9I2IiAukNdhtzqOf7Ivh3OHHMFdoN@mail.gmail.com> <AANLkTinClogN-RGIF37fk-DJgGuJ837hf9Wmd5eOsnMD@mail.gmail.com> <4BF0D0A3.2070806@aol.com> <AANLkTim6bG3CLUcW-IVDo-v8-jwQlIGL3f3e_d47yBJp@mail.gmail.com> <4C17A7D2.8090403@aol.com> <AANLkTilCdvbzXRtDxzO74eaZHlKS3SocPRtxPhAXI5O1@mail.gmail.com> <AANLkTimMS_BUHclLksedoMWWAMxpguCQD0Af86fqjmYz@mail.gmail.com>
In-Reply-To:
Subject: Re: [CR] [edited] New member trying to identify a french heart lugged frame


The frame is most likely from a Follis 172. It would have probably been equipped with mid price range French components such as Stronglight 49 or 93 cranks, a Stronglight P3 or V4 headset, Simplex Criterium derailleurs, MAFAC Competition or Racer brakes, Normandy Luxe Competition hubs, maybe even a Simplex seatpost and Ideale leather saddle.

In the early 1970s a lot of mid price range French bikes came with Simplex Criterium derailleurs: bikes like the Peugeot PX-10, Gitane Tour de France, Andre Bertin C-37 and so on.

In the US many owners of these bikes changed the derailleurs to Campagnolo or Suntour brands. After about 1974 when better quality Shimano derailleurs were first available, they became popular because tapping the derailleur hanger with an M10x1,0 tap was the only modification necessary to use these derailleurs on French bikes with Simplex dropouts.

The Follis ad you referred to was produced by the US importer. It was most likely from the US Bike Boom era, 1970-1974. They may have specified what equipment they wanted on their bikes or that was all that Follis used at the time.

Andre Bertin was the French importer for Shimano. Bertin, Gitane and other French makes started using some of the lower cost Shimano components around 1974 or 1975. Suntour only offered derailleurs at that time, Shimano started selling complete component Gruppos.

The bike could have come equipped with Shimano components or they were added by a previous owner.

Chas. Colerich Oakland, CA USA

Thibault Ferron wrote:
> One thing that disturb me about the follis probability is that the follis
> 1974 catalog doesn't mention any shimano equipment ...
> http://www.classicrendezvous.com/France/bicycles/Follis/follis_ad.htm
>
> Thibault Ferron
> Paris, France
>
> On 6/16/10, Thibault Ferron <classicrendezvous@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Thank you Chas for the answer. I'll give the frame to my mechanic who is
>> very experienced. So you think it's most probably a Follis frame?
>>
>> Thibault Ferron
>> Paris, France
>>
>> On 6/15/10, verktyg <verktyg@aol.com> wrote:
>>> The steering tube on the fork could possibly be straightened and the fork
>>> rake re-bent.
>>>
>>> Those forks appear to have a short rake. The chrome plated replacement
>>> forks will have too much rake and will negatively affect the handling of the
>>> bike.
>>>
>>> If the fork can't be straightened have someone make a new fork for 60\u20ac.
>>>
>>> Chas. Colerich
>>> Oakland, CA USA
>>>
>>> Thibault Ferron wrote:
>>>
>>>> Here are new reflex photos, do they add some help for the ID ?
>>>> http://img411.imageshack.us/gal.php?g=img1647a.jpg
>>>>
>>>> Regards,
>>>> Thibault Ferron,
>>>> Paris.
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, May 17, 2010 at 7:14 AM, verktyg <verktyg@aol.com <mailto:
>>>> verktyg@aol.com>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> It would be helpful if the photos weren't so close and more in
>>>> focus, also some complete views of the frame would help.
>>>>
>>>> In the mid 70s Follis made some top end bikes with that color light
>>>> metallic blue with dark blue lugs. They also used black rings to
>>>> separate the paint from the chrome on the fork blades and rear
>>>> stays. Judging from the "V" stamped in the Bocama lug and the
>>>> Reynolds 531 decal I'd estimate that the frame was made between 1974
>>>> and 1977.
>>>>
>>>> As far as getting a replacement fork such as one made by Tange,
>>>> there is a good chance that it could drastic alter the handling of
>>>> the bike. I would recommend having the steering tube replace by a
>>>> competent frame builder.
>>>>
>>>> Chas. Colerich
>>>> Oakland, CA USA
>>>>
>>>> Thibault Ferron wrote:
>>>>
>>>> A friend of mine has this old french frame, reynolds 531,
>>>> simplex dropout.
>>>> It had full dura ace 1st generation group (1973), except a
>>>> suntour rear
>>>> derailleur. Nothing is written down under the bottom bracket.
>>>> Any idea of
>>>> the maker ?
>>>>
>>>> http://eggrz7.free.fr/dura%20ace/IMG_0437.JPG
>>>> http://eggrz7.free.fr/dura%20ace/IMG_0438.JPG
>>>> http://eggrz7.free.fr/dura%20ace/IMG_0439.JPG
>>>> http://eggrz7.free.fr/dura%20ace/IMG_0440.JPG
>>>>
>>>> Another point : the fork's steering column is twisted. A french
>>>> professional
>>>> (lebatard) can replace it for around 60\u20ac. Do you think it worth
>>>> it or should
>>>> I just get a 20 or 30\u20ac new chrome fork?
>>>>
>>>> Thibault Ferron, Paris, France.