Re: [CR] Bertin Frames

(Example: Books:Ron Kitching)

From: Peter Rogers <pjrogers@rogers.com>
To: "verktyg" <verktyg@aol.com>, <Classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>
References: <2E59E7E595A1494F856ED80690E6EC9D@PeterPC> <4C1EFE42.7060709@aol.com> <A7C5A166AAA44C00B08B790DDB7AFECC@PeterPC> <4C1FA6B8.6020706@aol.com>
In-Reply-To: <4C1FA6B8.6020706@aol.com>
Date: Mon, 21 Jun 2010 14:18:39 -0400
Subject: Re: [CR] Bertin Frames


Dear Chas, Many thanks for confirming that the frame is a Bertin. It looks very similar to the one in the link that you added to your email. I'll need to track down someone that sells the decal sets.

When I get the frame, I check for traces of the original color in the BB, or head tube. If you look a the RD cable stop on the red bike, it is the same. It seems that they started to braze them onto the underside a little later on.

I'll check the tubing out when I strip the paint. I know that Reynolds had marks on their tubes, but I am not sure about Vitus.

I just hope the frame is straight and in good condition...

Great background info and I appreciate your help very much.

Kind regards, Peter Rogers

Barrie, Ontario, Canada

--------------------------------------------------
From: "verktyg" <verktyg@aol.com>
Sent: Monday, June 21, 2010 1:51 PM
To: "Peter Rogers" <pjrogers@rogers.com>; <Classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>
Subject: Re: [CR] Bertin Frames


> Peter,

>

> It's definitely a Bertin frame, most likely an early 80s model C37 which

> was their "professional" model for many years. It could also be a C70 or

> similar top of the line performance model.

>

> The 16mm seat stays with flat oval brazed-on caps was one of their

> hallmarks. The fish mouthed fork and rear stay ends were another. Long

> point Bocama lugs with the stamped V cutouts were used on this model from

> the mid 70s through the early 80s.

>

> The dropouts may be Campy or Milremo - which were made by one of the

> companies that made them for Campagnolo. The fork crown is an investment

> cast Vitus Arcor style.

>

> The standard C37 frames were made with Reynolds 531 tubing with .7mm/1.0mm

> wall thickness butted main tubes. The lighter C37bis used Super Vitus 971

> tubing which had .6/.9mm wall thickness main tubes - the same dimensions

> as Columbus SL tubing.

>

> My 1980 C37bis has Super Vitus 971 stickers but the main tubes are made of

> lighter Super Vitus 980.

>

> If you strip it for repainting, you'll probably be able to see what kind

> of tubing it's made of.

>

> These frames had around a ~100cm wheelbase with 72° to 73° angles which

> made for a classic French road racing ride - responsive but comfortable.

>

> The decals probably looked like these:

>

> http://tinyurl.com/2fn6s64

>

> Bertin had some catalog standard bikes but many if not most were built to

> order (in quantity). C37 was the frame model not necessarily the bike

> model. I've seen them from the 60s and early 70s equipped with everything

> from Huret Allvit derailleurs to full Campy!

>

> We were able to specify frame sizes, geometry (racing or touring), tubing

> (to some degree), and components (to some degree) but not colors or

> decals.

>

> Bertin was the French importer and distributor for Shimano and your frame

> looks like it has an alloy Shimano headset. It was not uncommon to see an

> all Shimano Bertin.

>

> We marketed the Bertins we imported as "all French". Bertin couldn't

> understand why we didn't want them equipped all Shimano!

>

> French production bikes were built to ride, not look at! ;-)

>

> Chas. Colerich

> Oakland, CA USA

>

>

> Peter Rogers wrote:

>> Dear Chas,

>> Many thanks for the information and it is interesting that you used to

>> sell Bertins in your shop.

>>

>> I checked out the CR archives and the website (blog) that you mentioned

>> in your email.

>>

>> As requested, I have posted the eBay photos on my blog:

>>

>> http://petersclassicwheels.blogspot.com/2010/06/bertin-frame.html

>>

>> The listing claims that it is a refinished Bertin frame (painted some

>> time ago, I think) and that it is made from Reynolds 531.

>> I believe that the front forks are not 531, but I am not sure.

>> I have not received the frame yet.

>>

>> I am not sure if the dropouts are Campy, but they look similar.

>>

>> Please let me know if you think it may be Bertin, as claimed.

>>

>> All the best,

>> Peter Rogers

>>

>> Barrie, Ontario, Canada

>>

>> --------------------------------------------------

>> From: "verktyg" Sent: Monday, June 21, 2010 1:53AM

>> To: "Peter Rogers"

>> Subject: Re: [CR] Bertin Frames

>>

>>> Sheldon Brown (RIP) described Bertins as "Better than average '70's

>>> bikes."

>>>

>>> Our shop imported Bertins from 1975 until the early 80s.

>>>

>>> There's a website with a fairly accurate history of Andre Bertin and his

>>> company Cycles Bertin also called Cycles Andre Bertin:

>>>

>>> http://bertinclassiccycles.wordpress.com/2009/02/07/andre-bertin-biography/

>>>

>>> The webmaster runs it more as a blog than a forum.

>>>

>>> Some of the information on models and hierarchy is based on opinions and

>>> guesses from contributors rather than hard facts from those who were in

>>> the trade when these bikes were being produced and sold.

>>>

>>> A Bertin Reynolds 531 frame for \u20ac 35 sounds like a good deal.

>>>

>>> Like most of the French bike makers, a lot of the bikes from the 60s

>>> through mid 70s had only the 3 main tubes Reynolds 531 with Durifort

>>> forks and stays on their mid range bikes.

>>>

>>> Many eBay sellers aren't aware of that or ignore it in their listings.

>>>

>>> During those years the best models where all Reynolds 531 or Super Vitus

>>> 971 tubing with Campy dropouts.

>>>

>>> Post some pictures and I can probably help ID the frame for you.

>>>

>>> Chas. Colerich

>>> Oakland, CA USA

>>>

>>>

>>> Peter Rogers wrote:

>>>> Dear All,

>>>> Just purchased a Reynolds 531 Bertin frame on eBay France for 35 Euros.

>>>> I'll post some photos on my blog shortly.

>>>> Does anyone on the list know anything about the quality and pedigree

>>>> these frames?

>>>> Any help will be much appreciated.

>>>> Kind regards,

>>>> Peter Rogers

>>>> Barrie, Ontario, Canada