Re: [CR] Trying to identify late 70's English frameset - BillHurlow?

(Example: Humor)

From: "kevin sayles" <>
To: <>, "donald gillies" <>
References: <>
In-Reply-To: <>
Date: Sat, 24 Apr 2010 09:38:30 +0100
Subject: Re: [CR] Trying to identify late 70's English frameset - BillHurlow?

Hi Don,

Sometimes its not easy to identify a particular in this case.

It seems quite a few of the UK builders where building frames which had a simular style and features.......for example the pic of the MKM [the large bike] is indentical to a Bob Jackson, though a full slope crown would normally have been used with a fastback seat cluster. ....but the way the seat stays are 'squashed' is the way we used to do them....and had I actually started work for Wes, Arthur and Ron in 1975 [decided not to bother and remained at Jacksons] no doubt many other little features would have been used.......

At Woodrup's the way I, or Steve did the reinforcing back plate was to weld it to the seat lug beforehand, and sometimes it would be simply filed neat and clean.......or if I was in the mood I'd add a scroll like feature [as on the frame in question] there was never a rigid rule to how we made the frames.....except in the case of frames for multiple orders, such as the frames we made for Ten Speed drive in Florida.

Actually I'd forgotton Dave Marsh worked for MKM [sorry Dave if you read this!] I used to race against Dave in many of the road races in chance of beating him in a sprint.....uphill maybe.....those were the days!

Kevin Sayles
Bridgwater Somerset UK

----- Original Message -----
From: donald gillies
Sent: Friday, April 23, 2010 8:11 PM
Subject: Re: [CR] Trying to identify late 70's English frameset -


> I've seen about 3 of these frames in the past, two on ebay (I wish i'd
> saved the auctions), and someone asked the same question about a
> similar frame in the past 12-18 months on the CR list - was it you ??
> If not, then I'd suggest you search the archives for information.
> To me, the frame can be described as, "A Carlton Giro D'Italia
> Imitation", made by an independent british frame builder. Everything
> is there, for a late 60's version of this frame (not the later 70's
> Carlton models with prugnat lugs, but with slightly different and
> earlier longpoint lugs.)
> I think these were made either by Holdsworth or MKM.
> Here are some similar bikes, with identical lugs, but with a different
> fastback cluster:
> I have seen MKMs that were 100% clones of the brampton-victor fastback
> Carlton Giro D'Italia, as one MKM builder (Dave Marsh) came from
> Carlton. Why not send an email to Dave Marsh and ask him about your
> frameset? His email is Your bike has a
> fastback cluster with a hole drilled on each side of the "beaver tail"
> extension of the lug, down the back of the seat tube.
> Here is a woodrup with a different fastback seatstay, but lugs more
> like a carlton flyer :
> - Don Gillies
> San Diego, CA, USA