Ted has hit the spoke on the head!! I don't think that Marcus's question was unreasonable at all - yes, he may have done a web-search, but we each have our own suppliers and may be able to recommend someone in particular. Not everyone is on bikeforums or other lists. In a decade (wow is it that long?) since I joined this august list I have asked the obvious and often naive questions. I have learned to use the archives - which don't always have the answers and are sometimes not always straightforward. Moreover, I don't think that a discussion of whether using old spokes is a good idea is OFF-TOPIC at all. Most of us are building these bikes to be ridden and there are certain parts of the bike which are vital in terms of function and safety - I use new chains too. I have learned a lot from this discussion. Further, finding spokes which will look okay on a vintage bike, but provide the safety of new parts is IMHO extremely important. Of course, as Ted points out, retrofitting provides its own problems. Now would the fact that I have just had a set of chainring bolts made for me out of stainless steel for a 1940s CL chainset be considered OFF-TOPIC. Not in my opinion as I intend to ride the bike they will be used on and finding the original bolts is getting harder and harder all the time.
Paul Williams, Ottawa, ON, Canada
Dr. Paul B. Williams, BAH, MPhil, PhD Instructor, Dept. of Geography and Environmental Studies, Carleton University, Ottawa, ON, Canada
> From: ternst1@cox.net
> To: mrrabbit@mrrabbit.net; classicrendezvous@bikelist.org; oroboyz@aol.com
> Date: Mon, 21 Jun 2010 19:08:53 -0700
> Subject: Re: [CR] Was: Robert's spoke brouhaha. now: Question for Dale...
>
> Dale has it correct of course.
> Rabbit was a little hard in his thumpiness.
> Our forum is precisely for those type of Q's.
> Everyone learns or should try to check out archives or ask for off line
> answers.
> Mayby it's something many os us may wish to know.
> How is one supposed to get experience and learn if not from the collective
> wisdom and knowledge of this august group?
> Years ago the flanges were thinner and the head crook was shorter on spokes.
> Years later as flanges were thicker spoke head crooks were lengthened by
> some makers.
> Some makers offered both dimensions.
> How many of you wheel constructeurs have had to bend the short crook around
> the flange and then take small hammer, plastic, steel, brass, whetever, and
> gently tap the bend to make it lie flat(ter) against the flange so that the
> spoke wouldn't straighten out later and get losser under riding pressure?
> Those untapped bows in spokes look horrible and aren't a properly finished
> product IMO.
> Both inside and outside spokes need to be aligned for the flow to be more
> direct to the pull and stress.
> Also the neat little brass spoke washers can be used to take up gap and play
> for a more solid assembly.
> Put some grease or other lube on the flange hole or spoke head croom so it
> rotates smoothly, sets easily, and doesn't mar an aluminum flange.
> Let's try to help and not hinder, please.
> Ted Ernst
> Palos Verdes Estates
> CA USA
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <oroboyz@aol.com>
> To: <mrrabbit@mrrabbit.net>; <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>
> Sent: Monday, June 21, 2010 6:40 PM
> Subject: [CR] Was: Robert's spoke brouhaha. now: Question for Dale...
>
>
> << Dale, ...(snip)... I joined specifically for discussions related directly
> to vintage, classic and KOF items as stated in your CR rules. ...(snip)...
> Are you going to step in more and be more proactive about inforcing the CR
> rules? Seriously Dale, I WANT TO READ PEOPLE's POSTINGS, but the filtering
> quantity-wise gets flat out tiring.
>
> My I suggest that you allow a couple others to do the enforcement - the
> likes
> of Jerome Moos and Bob Freitas for example? Jerome knows one helluva
> lot...Bob
> can be short and direct when it's needed...they have been around
> awhile...the
> vast majority of us here know who they are.
>
> Please address those questions in the plea of sorts above. >>
>
>
> Hmmm.
> Well the first point to be made is that the list is not moderated, i.e., I
> do not read & clear messages prior to their
> being sent to all the members. I get to read them just like everyone else.
> So I am reduced to reading them as I can... and calling people to task when
> and if I see that they have onerously broken the rules. I honestly do not
> think there are as many annoying violations of the rules as you seem to
> suffer through Robert! Granted, some things irritate me more than others
> (rudeness, vulgarity, using the list as a testing ground for pending eBay
> offerings for instance) But I also remember when I was a newbie in computers
> so maybe I tend to be more understanding with unintentional goofs.
> Of course, I also run a very busy bike shop and organize many cycling events
> so that I miss some mail. In the end, I do what I can and plod along.
> But taking your question to heart, I do not at all reject the idea of Bob
> or Jerry helping in that way. Both I consider excellent fellow and good
> friends. What say you, fellows?
>
>
> Dale
>
>
> Dale Brown
> cycles de ORO, Inc.
> 1410 Mill Street #100
> Greensboro, North Carolina 27408 USA
> 336-274-5959
> http://www.cyclesdeoro.com
> http://www.classicrendezvous.com
> http://www.carolinacup.com
> \u201cLife is like riding a bicycle. To keep your balance you must keep moving\u201d
> A.Einstein
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: mrrabbit@mrrabbit.net
> To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
> Sent: Mon, Jun 21, 2010 7:31 pm
> Subject: Re: [CR] spoke question & snark
>
>
> Okay...
>
> Everyone has had their chance to wax poetic, be the knight on the shining
> horse
>
> for the person getting "picked on", rally the wagons, etc., etc., etc.
>
> For the past two years, I have made two points over and over - which of
> course
> has gotten people all riled up each time:
>
> 1. This is a site for the discussion of vintage, classic and KOF bikes,
> parts,
>
> and their history as defined by Dale in the CR rules.
>
> 2. This is a site for the discussion of restoration, mechanical repair,
> etc.,
> of vintage, classic and KOF bikes and parts as defined by Dale in the CR
> rules.
>
> Now of course, each time everyone has gotten riled up - including some
> tossing
> outright profanity at me in public - Dale hops in and both publicly and
> privately reminds everyone including yours truly that it's his website and
> he
> enforces the rules.
>
> Which is fine by me...for awhile...as I sit quietly and watch over a period
> of
> 2-3 months a 1000 plus emails land in my inbox of which easily 1/3 are OFF-
> TOPIC...mostly "attaboys" and general mechanics questions and discussions
> instead of vintage/classic/KOF specific mechanics questions and discussions.
>
> Then of course having gotten tired of following the CR rules while watching
> others blatantly violate them - I run into a bad day and stick my ugly head
> up
> on the radar again - just like this morning.
>
> As a case in point, it got so bad at one point awhile back that one evening,
> CR
>
> became the new Craigslist Helpdesk. When I pointed that out, I got the
> usual
> heat including ad-homs. Surprisingly, even Dale joined in on the attack to
> which I asked paraphrasing: "So are you okay Dale with CR becoming a
> helpdesk
> for Craigslist when Craigslist already has one?
>
> I never did get an answer...
>
> So, regarding this morning, let's get down to it:
>
> 1. Can I resuse spokes? OFF-TOPIC
>
> It's a general mechanics question which has been answered a 100+ times over
> at
> bikeforums.net, forums.cycling.com and USENET courtesy of none other than
> Jobst
>
> Brandt and company - all archived by Google, Bing and Yahoo search engines.
>
> 2. Source for Robergel and Union-Berg? ON-TOPIC
>
> I was happy to see that part because it was another reminder that once again
> I
> really do need to ask about the Berg part - I'm not familiar with it -
> assuming
>
> it's the same Union that I am familiar with.
>
>
> 3. Source for DT Swiss 2.0/1.8? GOES BOTH WAYS
>
> Is DT KOF as a spoke? Some would say yes...some would say no...both sides
> are
> right in my honest opinion. Why did I go off on the poster? Simply because
> it
>
> told me flat out that the poster couldn't be bothered to do a little
> research
> with a search engine with the 8 fingers and 2 thumbs already splayed out
> across
>
> the keyboard. It took me less than 30 seconds to get a listing - one of
> which
> was Harris Cyclery offering custom lengths from blanks.
>
> Now before you guys start firing off those rockets again - understand that
> we
> have had this argument before - and a couple others on this list have
> expressed
>
> the same annoyance that I have with those we can't be bothered to do a
> little
> work up front with the tools they already have and know how to use
> beforehand.
>
> Am I done yet with that point? Actually not...because not only do people
> not
> make use of those listed search engines - but they also ignore
> BIKELIST.ORG's
> own search engine which is linked and noted 3 times over at a minimum when
> you
> follow the directory to join, follow the directory to browse the listings,
> and
> when you follow the directory to review the CR rules as I periodically do.
>
> Dale refuses to say it, but I will. Folks that do that in my honest
> opinion,
> whether unintentionally or intentionally, are displaying a lack of respect
> for
> those who maintain the site and list. BIKELIST.ORG's seach engine works
> fine -
>
> and even then when a few of us who do use it don't find something - we note
> it
> and apologize in ADVANCE before posting just in case.
>
> Now I am going to wrap things up...with a plea of sorts addressed to Dale
> more
> than anyone else:
>
> Dale, I joined CR not to experience bikeforums.net, forums.bicycling.com or
> USENET. I joined specifically for discussions related directly to vintage,
> classic and KOF items as stated in your CR rules. Also I did not join to
> witness an IT helpdesk for Craigslist. Even some of the eBay help stuff is
> crossing the line. eBay also has help forums and a chat forum.
>
> It has gotten to the point again where after trying very hard to read
> people's
> posts - I find myself realizing, here we go again...and doing a pipe/mv of
> the
> queues to /dev/null and restarting my qmail on my server.
>
> Are you going to step in more and be more proactive about inforcing the CR
> rules? Seriously Dale, I WANT TO READ PEOPLE's POSTINGS, but the filtering
> quantity-wise gets flat out tiring.
>
> My I suggest that you allow a couple others to do the enforcement - the
> likes
> of Jerome Moos and Bob Freitas for example? Jerome knows one helluva
> lot...Bob
>
> can be short and direct when it's needed...they have been around
> awhile...the
> vast majority of us here know who they are.
>
> Please address those questions in the plea of sorts above.
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Robert Shackelford
> San Jose, CA USA
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> PRIVACY WARNING: For auditing purposes, a copy of this message has been
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