Re: [CR] tire alert

(Example: Production Builders:Peugeot:PY-10)

Date: Sat, 1 Jan 2011 01:05:47 -0800 (PST)
From: "jeffrey piwonka" <jmpiwonka@yahoo.com>
To: Ken Freeman <kenfreeman096@gmail.com>, Ted Ernst <ternst1@cox.net>
In-Reply-To: <C7B1EB5C-2265-4F80-BECD-067E2B1789BF@cox.net>
Cc: Charles Andrews <chasds@mindspring.com>, Classic Rendezvous <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>
Subject: Re: [CR] tire alert


been riding these for the last few months. http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4130/4988002315_15067c6cbe_b.jpg

very happy with them. i think francois marie worked at clement...

jeff piwonka
austin texas


--- On Sat, 1/1/11, Ted Ernst wrote:


> From: Ted Ernst <ternst1@cox.net>
> Subject: Re: [CR] tire alert
> To: "Ken Freeman" <kenfreeman096@gmail.com>
> Cc: "Charles Andrews" <chasds@mindspring.com>, "Classic Rendezvous" <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>
> Date: Saturday, January 1, 2011, 2:12 AM
> I'm out there and here and maybe too
> far out once in a while.
> As far as sidewall repair is/was concerned, I knew a few
> guys who would replace cords/plies when cut damaged, but it
> was more than I ever did.
> We did however put boots in the inside of the sewups and
> which were thin and strong would keep up to about a 1/4'
> cut/break  in the casing not a problem for tube bulge
> and subsequently we could use the tire depending on cut as a
> rider forever till worn out or as a spare to get home.
> We usually used silk sewup casing less the strip. Nice and
> thin and made to hold pressure, it was already contoured to
> fit the tire and with excess cut off, didn't leave a bulge
> or cut the tube.
> Some of the sewup patch kits also had fabric boot material
> in them made of cloth and with a black covering of glue that
> stuck in place when some rubber cement was applied. Kept the
> glue from absorbing into the cloth, and kept moisture out of
> tire.
> As to the old tires, sewups were never compared or thought
> of when the "Stonies" or "Stone Crusher" single tube garden
> hose type tires were made and ridden. These were stock for
> regular bikes and guys would train and even race on them but
> were never intended or designed for that purpose.
> When we trained  years ago we had one set of wheels
> with heavier rims and tires for training use and least two
> sets of lighter sewup wheels for racing. Often we even had a
> warm up set with light rims and one weight heavier tire
> which could be used as an emergency racing wheel if the
> "first" wheels were rendered out of commission.
> Most guys had one training set of road wheels and one
> racing set, all sewups, but not too many guys had two road
> bikes.
> Almost all the guys had two track bikes once they got to
> Cat one or two, because they all road "team/madison" races
> and a spare bike was needed in case of a wild spill. Much
> like the pros at the 6-days.
> I don't remember the old tires we raced on on the track as
> having any coating on the sidewalls. The black coated or
> coated sidewalls were almost always used on/for the road,
> probably for weather protection.
> Guys used coated tires on track too, if that's what they
> had.
> But basically our track tires were just plain tires,
> whether silk, cotton, or other fabric, nice and light and
> simple, no coating of any kind.
> Remember, the strips or protector as called on the
> continent, that's Europe to you provincials, (have to insult
> my friends and colleagues to start the year properly you
> know), are nice and constant in thickness for the track, and
> tapered to varying degree for the road.
> The top for racing along was a little thicker for road
> racing and it tapered slightly thinner towards each side so
> that when cornering it wouldn't squish or mush to detract
> from good positive handling while leaning in turns.
> Check it out.
> I still use sewups, started on them in '47, never got
> unused to them. Maybe if  find it hard to change tires
> in a few years and I'm still riding, I may switch to - ugh-
> clinchers, but not yet.
> When we spoke years ago about equipment to people, we
> always said racing tires, and then explained the difference
> to the folks.
> It's the way it was, and we liked it!
> Ted Ernst
> Palos Verdes Estates
> CA  USA
>
> On Dec 31, 2010, at 4:25 PM, Ken Freeman wrote:
>
> > What kind of sidewall damage are we talking about,
> exactly?  And George,
> > this is not an attack, just to try to better
> understand what you're
> > experience has been.
> >
> > Plus in another post, you mentioned sewing on base
> tapes.  In my experience
> > they are not sewed on, but glued, with latex.
> >
> > The only sidewall restoration procedure I know of is
> to paint the sides with
> > liquid latex of some sort.  It restores a degree
> of abrasion protection
> > to the sidewall, but I don't think any procedure
> exists for repairing
> > damaged or severed casing threads.  It's really
> more of a preservative, not
> > a restoration.
> >
> > Just trying to understand what expectation is not
> being met.  I have some
> > oldies too, that could use some extra help.
> > On Fri, Dec 31, 2010 at 3:49 PM, George Hollenberg
> <ghollmd@gmail.com>wrote:
> >
> >> Sorry Dr. C:
> >> Don't try to personalize my arguments. Having
> bought a bike from you I
> >> realize we have different standards-that's OK
> >> I love Ron for what he does well-repair modern
> tubies. I repeat he cannot
> >> repair damaged sidewalls, cannot use original
> valves, doesn't work well
> >> with
> >> silk and, through no fault of his own, usually use
> original base tape.
> >> I think that if you really ride tubies a lot you
> should use good ones like
> >> Veloflex 24mm. You get good feel, a better ride
> and better control too.
> >> That's all I use on my vintage riders. You can buy
> them on the net in Italy
> >> for half of what they cost here. Repairing tubies
> is always risky
> >> business-and where one's safety is
> concerned-what's a few bucks. Some
> >> people
> >> claim they ride their vintage bikes but it's
> really around the block-any
> >> tire will do.
> >> George
> >> George Hollenberg MD
> >>
> >> On Fri, Dec 31, 2010 at 3:37 PM, Charles Andrews
> <chasds@mindspring.com
> >>> wrote:
> >>
> >>> Dr. George wrote:
> >>>
> >>> The valve stems cannot
> >>> be salvaged in most cases either. He cannot
> restore side walls of any
> >>> tires.
> >>> No matter how well his work is done, in the
> case of a vintage tire, one
> >> is
> >>> left with an old casing in a new tube-in my
> opinion and experience,a
> >>> dangerous situation for spirited riding.
> >>>
> >>> _________
> >>>
> >>> I've sent Tire Alert many tires over the years
> and have been quite
> >>> satisfied with the results for the most part,
> including tube replacement
> >> in
> >>> high-quality cotton and vintage silk
> tires.  I'm riding tires tire-alert
> >> has
> >>> repaired..  It's a great service.
> >>>
> >>> However, that said, you won't have a new tire
> when you get your tires
> >>> back..and the base-tape, while better than in
> previous years, will not
> >> look
> >>> especially original.  And in every case,
> the tires will fit looser than
> >> is
> >>> ideal, and should be glued up very carefully.
> >>>
> >>> If you want to salvage an expensive tire with
> life left in it though,
> >> Tire
> >>> Alert is a good choice.
> >>>
> >>> I tend to agree with Chuck Schmidt:  if
> you ride tubulars a lot, on one
> >>> bike or on one set of wheels, buy decent cheap
> tubulars, like Vittoria
> >>> Rallys and just throw them away when they
> flat.  It's one way to go.
> >>>
> >>> Charles Andrews
> >>> Los Angeles
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> "No man is an island, entire of itself; every
> >>> man is a piece of the continent, a part of
> the
> >>> main. If a clod be washed away by the sea,
> >>> Europe is the less, as well as if a
> promontory
> >>> were, as well as if a manor of thy friend's
> or
> >>> of thine own were: any man's death diminishes
> >>> me, because I am involved in mankind, and
> >>> therefore never send to know for whom the
> bells
> >>> tolls; it tolls for thee."
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> John Donne
> >>> Meditation 1624
> >>>
> _______________________________________________
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> George
> >>
> >> George Hollenberg MD
> >> CT, USA
> >> _______________________________________________
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Ken Freeman
> > Ann Arbor, MI USA
> > _______________________________________________
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> > Classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
> > http://www.bikelist.org/mailman/listinfo/classicrendezvous
>
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