Re: [CR] tire alert

Example: Events:Eroica

Date: Sat, 1 Jan 2011 01:05:47 -0800 (PST)
From: jeffrey piwonka <>
To: Ken Freeman <>, Ted Ernst <>
In-Reply-To: <>
Cc: Charles Andrews <>, Classic Rendezvous <>
Subject: Re: [CR] tire alert

been riding these for the last few months.

very happy with them. i think francois marie worked at clement...

jeff piwonka
austin texas

--- On Sat, 1/1/11, Ted Ernst wrote:

> From: Ted Ernst <>

\r?\n> Subject: Re: [CR] tire alert

\r?\n> To: "Ken Freeman" <>

\r?\n> Cc: "Charles Andrews" <>, "Classic Rendezvous" <>

\r?\n> Date: Saturday, January 1, 2011, 2:12 AM

\r?\n> I'm out there and here and maybe too

\r?\n> far out once in a while.

\r?\n> As far as sidewall repair is/was concerned, I knew a few

\r?\n> guys who would replace cords/plies when cut damaged, but it

\r?\n> was more than I ever did.

\r?\n> We did however put boots in the inside of the sewups and

\r?\n> which were thin and strong would keep up to about a 1/4'

\r?\n> cut/break  in the casing not a problem for tube bulge

\r?\n> and subsequently we could use the tire depending on cut as a

\r?\n> rider forever till worn out or as a spare to get home.

\r?\n> We usually used silk sewup casing less the strip. Nice and

\r?\n> thin and made to hold pressure, it was already contoured to

\r?\n> fit the tire and with excess cut off, didn't leave a bulge

\r?\n> or cut the tube.

\r?\n> Some of the sewup patch kits also had fabric boot material

\r?\n> in them made of cloth and with a black covering of glue that

\r?\n> stuck in place when some rubber cement was applied. Kept the

\r?\n> glue from absorbing into the cloth, and kept moisture out of

\r?\n> tire.

\r?\n> As to the old tires, sewups were never compared or thought

\r?\n> of when the "Stonies" or "Stone Crusher" single tube garden

\r?\n> hose type tires were made and ridden. These were stock for

\r?\n> regular bikes and guys would train and even race on them but

\r?\n> were never intended or designed for that purpose.

\r?\n> When we trained  years ago we had one set of wheels

\r?\n> with heavier rims and tires for training use and least two

\r?\n> sets of lighter sewup wheels for racing. Often we even had a

\r?\n> warm up set with light rims and one weight heavier tire

\r?\n> which could be used as an emergency racing wheel if the

\r?\n> "first" wheels were rendered out of commission.

\r?\n> Most guys had one training set of road wheels and one

\r?\n> racing set, all sewups, but not too many guys had two road

\r?\n> bikes.

\r?\n> Almost all the guys had two track bikes once they got to

\r?\n> Cat one or two, because they all road "team/madison" races

\r?\n> and a spare bike was needed in case of a wild spill. Much

\r?\n> like the pros at the 6-days.

\r?\n> I don't remember the old tires we raced on on the track as

\r?\n> having any coating on the sidewalls. The black coated or

\r?\n> coated sidewalls were almost always used on/for the road,

\r?\n> probably for weather protection.

\r?\n> Guys used coated tires on track too, if that's what they

\r?\n> had.

\r?\n> But basically our track tires were just plain tires,

\r?\n> whether silk, cotton, or other fabric, nice and light and

\r?\n> simple, no coating of any kind.

\r?\n> Remember, the strips or protector as called on the

\r?\n> continent, that's Europe to you provincials, (have to insult

\r?\n> my friends and colleagues to start the year properly you

\r?\n> know), are nice and constant in thickness for the track, and

\r?\n> tapered to varying degree for the road.

\r?\n> The top for racing along was a little thicker for road

\r?\n> racing and it tapered slightly thinner towards each side so

\r?\n> that when cornering it wouldn't squish or mush to detract

\r?\n> from good positive handling while leaning in turns.

\r?\n> Check it out.

\r?\n> I still use sewups, started on them in '47, never got

\r?\n> unused to them. Maybe if  find it hard to change tires

\r?\n> in a few years and I'm still riding, I may switch to - ugh-

\r?\n> clinchers, but not yet.

\r?\n> When we spoke years ago about equipment to people, we

\r?\n> always said racing tires, and then explained the difference

\r?\n> to the folks.

\r?\n> It's the way it was, and we liked it!

\r?\n> Ted Ernst

\r?\n> Palos Verdes Estates

\r?\n> CA  USA


\r?\n> On Dec 31, 2010, at 4:25 PM, Ken Freeman wrote:


\r?\n> > What kind of sidewall damage are we talking about,

\r?\n> exactly?  And George,

\r?\n> > this is not an attack, just to try to better

\r?\n> understand what you're

\r?\n> > experience has been.

\r?\n> >

\r?\n> > Plus in another post, you mentioned sewing on base

\r?\n> tapes.  In my experience

\r?\n> > they are not sewed on, but glued, with latex.

\r?\n> >

\r?\n> > The only sidewall restoration procedure I know of is

\r?\n> to paint the sides with

\r?\n> > liquid latex of some sort.  It restores a degree

\r?\n> of abrasion protection

\r?\n> > to the sidewall, but I don't think any procedure

\r?\n> exists for repairing

\r?\n> > damaged or severed casing threads.  It's really

\r?\n> more of a preservative, not

\r?\n> > a restoration.

\r?\n> >

\r?\n> > Just trying to understand what expectation is not

\r?\n> being met.  I have some

\r?\n> > oldies too, that could use some extra help.

\r?\n> > On Fri, Dec 31, 2010 at 3:49 PM, George Hollenberg

\r?\n> <>wrote:

\r?\n> >

\r?\n> >> Sorry Dr. C:

\r?\n> >> Don't try to personalize my arguments. Having

\r?\n> bought a bike from you I

\r?\n> >> realize we have different standards-that's OK

\r?\n> >> I love Ron for what he does well-repair modern

\r?\n> tubies. I repeat he cannot

\r?\n> >> repair damaged sidewalls, cannot use original

\r?\n> valves, doesn't work well

\r?\n> >> with

\r?\n> >> silk and, through no fault of his own, usually use

\r?\n> original base tape.

\r?\n> >> I think that if you really ride tubies a lot you

\r?\n> should use good ones like

\r?\n> >> Veloflex 24mm. You get good feel, a better ride

\r?\n> and better control too.

\r?\n> >> That's all I use on my vintage riders. You can buy

\r?\n> them on the net in Italy

\r?\n> >> for half of what they cost here. Repairing tubies

\r?\n> is always risky

\r?\n> >> business-and where one's safety is

\r?\n> concerned-what's a few bucks. Some

\r?\n> >> people

\r?\n> >> claim they ride their vintage bikes but it's

\r?\n> really around the block-any

\r?\n> >> tire will do.

\r?\n> >> George

\r?\n> >> George Hollenberg MD

\r?\n> >>

\r?\n> >> On Fri, Dec 31, 2010 at 3:37 PM, Charles Andrews

\r?\n> <

\r?\n> >>> wrote:

\r?\n> >>

\r?\n> >>> Dr. George wrote:

\r?\n> >>>

\r?\n> >>> The valve stems cannot

\r?\n> >>> be salvaged in most cases either. He cannot

\r?\n> restore side walls of any

\r?\n> >>> tires.

\r?\n> >>> No matter how well his work is done, in the

\r?\n> case of a vintage tire, one

\r?\n> >> is

\r?\n> >>> left with an old casing in a new tube-in my

\r?\n> opinion and experience,a

\r?\n> >>> dangerous situation for spirited riding.