Ive been using TUBs all my life, to me to use clin.chers, and when I have the time, Ill tell you the origins of the word, and I feel that the use of Clinchers, carrying spare tyre levers, tubes, and patches, is archaic and harks back to the days of the CTC and tourists. I newver road Pressures, as they were called then, and used tubs from the start. In those days you repaired your own, though I have little rememberence of punctures especially in races, and these were the days of no Kevlar. I had a 46 year layoff I never experienced the tranistion between tubs and clinchers, or pressures, as we called them and would look down on those that rode them as scrubbers, terrible snobbery , but that was the BLRC, So when my cancer loomed and the bike was a method of weight loss to get the required opp. I came back on all I knew, Tubs. I heard silly tales of tubs always riolling off,[ so why do people race on them?] And found that none used them and a void of knowledge was the answer to my questions of why. I have spent many years in F1 and Motor Racing in general and learnt that tyres are the most important part of ANY vehicle. The enxt is supension. Trouble is, there is no one to teach us. We go nb;lindly and buy round black thinks on price for our cars, and the same for our bikes. Seldom do people atribute knowledge to purchase and your correspondants who have chosen the Paris Roubaix tubs, were probably right, but why. Yes the ride is good, but what makes it so. If you ride tubs you are on a winner to begin with, the tyre being cicular means that it has a better rolling radius than a tyre with a fairly fixed side wall flexability. If you consider that the bike tyre has probably 3/8th" on the road in a straight line depending on the weight of the rider and the pressure of the tyre. With tub, the wall is usually more supple, so when you corner the the tread of the tub stays more in contact with the surface, so, the moree the tread width, the more the adhesion. With a clincher, it has to have a fairly solid wall and therfore the tyre turns over with the bike, thereforenoffering less rubber on the road. Take a X bike. They run tubs made by the great tub designer and manufacturer Durdoigne, who took tub technolegy to the next level. His latest tyre has a side wall so supply that when you put it to X pressure, 40lb, the tyre can be moved by hand, and no, they dont role off, but when you corner, due to the supple side wall as the bike leens, the tyres hardly moves, so the tread stays on the surface . If the sid e wall was stiff, the tread would onle offer a deminishing amount of tread to the surface and if the road was wet or slippery,the tyre rolls and offers little rubber to the surface. Most tubs and tyres have little or no side wall tread, so on a stiffer tyre, you suddenly run out of grip as the tyres roll over. When it comes to wet weather ythe tyre needs "Sipes", small cuts in the tread. There is a thin film of water between the tyre and the surface, and these sipes push t he water away from the tyre and makes contact twixt tyre and surface. Watch videos in slo mo of dragsters coming off the line,see the supple ness of the tyre walls and you will see what I mean. I could go on boring yopu for hours about tyres, but have the wrong ones and youll be trying to sort your bike out for ever, without ever finding the problem. Barfrie Carter, 80 miles since tuesday, on Paris Roubaix tubs, Roundham UK
From: verktyg <verktyg@aol.com> Subject: Re: [CR] silk/seta tubular ride To: Classicrendezvous@bikelist.org Date: Friday, 31 December, 2010, 21:36
Emanuel,
I had always been taught that riding silk tubulars in the wet was not a good idea because water could damage the silk casings. The moisture that got into the casings could break down the silk over time.
Ergo Clement red label cotton Paris-Roubaix tires. They were my all time favorite tires. Next to those were Clement Champione Del Mundo setas. Side by side you couldn't tell the difference between the sidewalls.
The cotton Paris-Roubaix tires had a slightly larger cross section and weighed about 10 grams more - 300g vs. 290g. Clement also made smaller, lighter Paris-Roubaix setas that weighed 275g.
I guessed that the P-R cotton tires were for bad weather and the setas were for dry?
The other advantage of silk was it is considerably stronger than cotton and can be inflated to higher pressure.
Longevity of silk tires in wet weather was probably not much of an issue for pro riders.
The cotton P-Rs were slightly smoother riding than Del Mundos because of the larger cross section.
I had some old beat up Del Mundos that I rode wet or dry and never saw a problem. Wore em down to the casing!
Chas. Colerich Oakland, CA USA
EPL wrote:
> In case this isn't understood by all, here's the reason silk walled tubulars have that magic ride quality.
> Silk thread is finer (as well as stronger) than cotton, thereby allowing it to be woven more tightly, resulting in a far higher density material, with more threads per aquare inch than cotton, while also being lighter.
> Until we can figure out how ro make fabric from spider's thread, the silkworm stuff Is the titanium of natural fibres.
>
> For the same reason, oriental rugs made of pure silk drape or roll up with an exceptional suppleness when compared to rugs made of wool or wool/cotton. A trip to a good rug shop will provide the evidence.
>
> Silk fabric is more costly than cotton partly for the same reason; much more of it is used per square inch.
> I suspect that air loss through latex inner tubes over the course of a ride is a minor factor. Unless one is riding a very long distance (say, more than 250km) in cool conditions, my guess is that air loss is negligible.
>
> I believe that some riders in Paris-Roubaix continue to use silk-walled tubulars with latex inners to this day.
>
> Emanuel Lowi
> Montreal, Quebec